Linked by Thom Holwerda on Thu 23rd Jul 2009 22:53 UTC, submitted by Remy Chi Jian Suen
Editorial So, Microsoft submits 20000 lines of code to the Linux kernel, all licensed under the GPL. Microsoft, who considers Linux a great threat, and once called the GPL a "cancer". Opinions on this one are flying all around us, but what does Linus Torvalds, Linux' benevolent dictator, think about all this?
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RE[6]: Embrace Extend Extinguish
by lemur2 on Fri 24th Jul 2009 02:36 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Embrace Extend Extinguish"
lemur2
Member since:
2007-02-17

Honestly, you are helpless. Keep on with your twisted crusade, its your life getting wasted and not mine.


If people collaborate with each other, and provide themselves with tools and knowledge through their collaboration, and consequently free themselves from a large abusive corporate who wants to extract a fortune from them for those same things, then how is that a waste?

Reply Parent Score: 4

Hiev Member since:
2005-09-27

In your own twisted world I said all that.

I think Linus is rigth and people like you do more arm than good to the free software.

Reply Parent Score: 1

lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

In your own twisted world I said all that. I think Linus is rigth and people like you do more arm than good to the free software.


If what you think is right, and that I am "twisted" as you allege, how is it that it is you who is posting all the insults and accusations in this conversation, where I have posted none in reply?

Edited 2009-07-24 02:59 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2

ssa2204 Member since:
2006-04-22

"Honestly, you are helpless. Keep on with your twisted crusade, its your life getting wasted and not mine.


If people collaborate with each other, and provide themselves with tools and knowledge through their collaboration, and consequently free themselves from a large abusive corporate who wants to extract a fortune from them for those same things, then how is that a waste?
"

He has a point, you have crossed the line from normal appreciation to obsession. You are free, as you love to point out many times, to install whatever the hell you want on your computer. So it begs the question, how far does this obsession go? Well clearly you feel that any business is an evil entity for being profitable, ever thought of moving to Cuba?

Large abusive, some might also say this is called competition. You know the old saying, if you can't take the heat get out of the kitchen. You know the statement :

I may make jokes about Microsoft at times, but at the same time, I think the Microsoft hatred is a disease. I believe in open development, and that very much involves not just making the source open, but also not shutting other people and companies out.

There are ‘extremists’ in the free software world, but that’s one major reason why I don’t call what I do ‘free software’ any more. I don’t want to be associated with the people for whom it’s about exclusion and hatred.”

That really refers to people like you. Believe it or not, there is a world much more interesting out there outside of these stupid little ones and zeros. When you have reached a point where the boogey man is hiding around every corner, that is usually a sign to move on in life and seek a different path.

Reply Parent Score: 2

lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

" If people collaborate with each other, and provide themselves with tools and knowledge through their collaboration, and consequently free themselves from a large abusive corporate who wants to extract a fortune from them for those same things, then how is that a waste?


He has a point, you have crossed the line from normal appreciation to obsession. You are free, as you love to point out many times, to install whatever the hell you want on your computer. So it begs the question, how far does this obsession go? Well clearly you feel that any business is an evil entity for being profitable, ever thought of moving to Cuba?
"

Oh dear. It clearly is not evil for a business (no matter how large) to make money. Offering wanted goods and services in return for recompense? ... perfectly fair, and indeed good for all.

This is primarily not what Microsoft do however. They buy up competition or force it out of business, and try to make it so that their own poor quality offering is the only thing available on the market.

That is just opression and exploitation.

Large abusive, some might also say this is called competition. You know the old saying, if you can't take the heat get out of the kitchen.


The thing is ... it is Microsoft who cannot stand the competition. Witness the way that Microsoft land on any retailers who try to offer a Linux desktop machine to the public. Witness Microsoft getting Linux netbooks off the shelves. Witness the efforts to corrupt or eliminate open standards such as ODF. Witness Microsoft's trying to hold people's own data to ransom. Witness Microsoft claiming efforts towards "interoperability" but actually producing the ONLY version of ODF files that will not interoperate.

The list of Microsoft not competing, and in fact trying to eliminate all actual competition, is endless.

You know the statement : I may make jokes about Microsoft at times, but at the same time, I think the Microsoft hatred is a disease. I believe in open development, and that very much involves not just making the source open, but also not shutting other people and companies out. There are ‘extremists’ in the free software world, but that’s one major reason why I don’t call what I do ‘free software’ any more. I don’t want to be associated with the people for whom it’s about exclusion and hatred.”

That really refers to people like you.


Yet paradoxically, it is you, not I, who offers the insults and the accusations. Who is it that is actually doing any hating here?

Believe it or not, there is a world much more interesting out there outside of these stupid little ones and zeros. When you have reached a point where the boogey man is hiding around every corner, that is usually a sign to move on in life and seek a different path.


I rest my case.

Edited 2009-07-24 03:24 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2

bannor99 Member since:
2005-09-15

I've said many times Ballmer&Co are great at competition, by any means necessary. And, as such, they have to be watched and, since they have such clout with businesses, one cannot afford to ignore them.
I would say that opposition to M($), is probably the main reason that their products improve. Their early
IEs were lame but they pulled ahead of the pack with IE5, then stagnated for 5+ years because there wasn't a serious threat until Firefox found its legs.

A lot of M($) apologists like to bring up IBM's past without crediting all the time, money and effort they put into Linux enhancements.
But, apart from IBM, I can't recall every seeing a company advertise Linux on TV, and while it was overly cerebral, they spent coin on it.

Reply Parent Score: 1

bert64 Member since:
2007-04-23

Being profitable is not the problem, trying to exert control over everyone is the issue...

Sure, you can choose not to use anything from MS but that puts you at a disadvantage and that's not how it should be. People should be free to choose what they use and not be pushed towards one particular vendor by intentional incompatibility and proprietary formats/protocols.

You don't get the same in other markets, because of standards i can choose the car that suits me best safe in the knowledge that it will run on the same fuel and on the same roads as any other car. I can choose the TV i want safe in the knowledge that it supports the same standards as any other TV, and i can watch the same programs on it and connect the same game consoles to it etc.

When MS start participating in the open standards dialogs everyone else is, and actually implementing those standards in good faith and seeking to improve any deficiencies in them rather than exploiting them (see their implementation of odf)

Reply Parent Score: 3