Linked by Thom Holwerda on Sat 15th Aug 2009 17:55 UTC
X11, Window Managers Over the past couple of months, and especially over the past couple of weeks, I've been working very hard to write and complete my thesis. I performed all the work on Windows 7, but now that the thesis is finally done, submitted, and accepted, I installed Ubuntu - and immediately I was reminded of why I do not do any serious work on Linux: the train wreck that is X.org.
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This is ruminant evacuation
by richardstevenhack on Sat 15th Aug 2009 21:45 UTC
richardstevenhack
Member since:
2006-12-30

Excuse me, Holwerda, but Vista has been out barely two years and sucked rocks the whole time, and Windows 7 isn't even out yet, not to mention both of them being totally proprietary code.

So exactly how and where does X "learn" from Microsoft?

Does anybody else see how stupid this rant is? Holwerda is running as the typical user, windows and documents open all over his desktop, unsaved and no automatic saving enabled, then he opens some huge frickin' 1080i video which grinds his system to a halt in a video player I wouldn't touch with a ten-foot pole because I know better, then he installs a NEW video player which SOMEHOW proceeds to trigger a crash SOMEWHERE in the system which takes down his desktop.

For this, he goes on a rant about X when he doesn't even know if it had anything to DO with X per se.

I've had KWin crash a number of times on openSUSE 10.3 and 11.0 and take everything down. SO WHAT?

This is an idiotic rant from somebody who experienced a crash and got pissed off about the state of software in the wide world.

News flash, Holwerda! Let me 'splain it to you in plain English.

SOFTWARE IS CRAP! WINDOWS IS CRAP! LINUX IS CRAP! IT'S ALL CRAP! BUT - Linux is FREE CRAP!

As Woody Allen explained the human condition in five words, with special application to IT, making him the greatest philosopher of the 20th Century: "Nothing works and nobody cares.

So suck it up. Curse all you want, but going off on a rant about X and praising Windows just makes you look like a lame end user who doesn't understand what the hell is going on.

If X has problems, X will be fixed sooner or later. Until then, STFU.

Reply Score: -1

RE: This is ruminant evacuation
by KugelKurt on Sat 15th Aug 2009 22:16 in reply to "This is ruminant evacuation"
KugelKurt Member since:
2005-07-06

I've had KWin crash a number of times on openSUSE 10.3 and 11.0 and take everything down.

Huh? A crashing window manager should take nothing down -- it just leaves the windows without title bars. Just rerun the window manager or use another one.

Reply Parent Score: 3

richardstevenhack Member since:
2006-12-30

When I said "take everything down", I mean the window layouts and open apps. The kernel is fine. I don't bother to play with it, I just CTRL-ALT-Backspace and relog in. Rarely happens, although in fact it just happened a couple minutes ago.

It always happens when I'm doing something in Firefox. It's almost certainly Firefox's fault, but I have no clue why. Although I have Kongueror, Opera, Kaffeine, and Thunderbird open, plus a couple Twitter apps, nothing else is doing anything at the time. So I'm pretty sure it's Firefox's fault, which is no surprise given the bloat in that browser and the various bugs. This is especially likely since I just installed 3.5.2 yesterday.

If it weren't for the very useful extensions I use, I'd dump Firefox for Opera. Of course, it's possible the extensions are to blame for this behavior as well.

In any event, while I rant about Firefox, I'm not ranting about X or Linux or whatever like Thom is, nor am I recommending that Firefox "learn" from IE8. That's my point.

Reply Parent Score: 2

PlatformAgnostic Member since:
2006-01-02

"Until then STFU"

Sorry to harp on only one point at the end of a long post, but if he STFUs how is anyone developing the X stack going to know that there's a problem which potential linux users care about? Maybe because of his public rant which clearly delineates the behavior he wants to see, some of the folks behind X will consider changes to allow for session reconnects.

Reply Parent Score: 2

richardstevenhack Member since:
2006-12-30

I'm sure the people behind X know all about session reconnects and probably have them on their roadmap.

If Thom wants sessions reconnects, just say so. Ranting about how Linux could "learn" from a Windows OS that is widely regarded as crap, or a Windows version that isn't even out yet is not going to help.

I installed Firefox 3.5.2 just yesterday. Today I notice Firefox has a lot of trouble reloading certain Web pages - they even call it embarrassing in the dialog! - and guess what? Yet another KWin crash!

So if Thom wants to rant, let him rant about the bug ridden Mozilla browser. Just about every time I've had a desktop crash, it's been when Firefox was doing something, either manipulating pages or doing some sort of media thing (downloading video or something).

X is the least of my worries day to day.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE: This is ruminant evacuation
by bhtooefr on Sun 16th Aug 2009 13:12 in reply to "This is ruminant evacuation"
bhtooefr Member since:
2009-02-19

So you fit into the "calling it his fault" category.

And, telling people to STFU about a problem with X until it's fixed... how are X.org devs going to fix that problem if everybody's STFU'd about it?

Reply Parent Score: 1

richardstevenhack Member since:
2006-12-30

Again, the X people undoubtedly know all about this sort of thing. Eventually they'll either fix it or somebody will fix it for them or somebody will do what Thom wants - make a new server.

Ranting about how Linux could "learn" from a Windows OS that is bloated crap or one that is a re-made version of the bloated crap one and isn't even out yet is not going to impress the X people.

In this rant, Thom is just doing what I said in my post above - he's complaining about crap software. DUH! IT'S ALL CRAP! That's the nature of the software industry at this time. Deal with it!

Reply Parent Score: 1