Linked by David Adams on Mon 24th Aug 2009 09:21 UTC
Linux A reader asks: Why is Linux still not as user friendly as the two other main OSes with all the people developing for Linux? Is it because it is mainly developed by geeks? My initial feeling when reading this question was that it was kind of a throwaway, kind of a slam in disguise as a genuine question. But the more I thought about it, the more intrigued I felt. There truly are a large amount of resources being dedicated to the development of Linux and its operating system halo (DEs, drivers, apps, etc). Some of these resources are from large companies (IBM, Red Hat, Novell). Why isn't Linux more user-friendly? Is this an inherent limitation with open source software?
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RE[7]: Comment by ven-
by abraxas on Mon 24th Aug 2009 19:24 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Comment by ven-"
abraxas
Member since:
2005-07-07

Your argument is a strawman, as you assume that only unknowledgeable people would be in favour of decentralized packages while everyone else would agree with you.


Are you listening to yourself? You argument is that because you claim it is bad then it must be bad. That's not very convincing. Your argument is even less convincing when you start putting words in my mouth. I never said only un-knowledgeable people disagree with me.

Red herring. It was merely an example. Now that you mention it, Ubuntu is not based on Debian Stable, Debian Testing is still packaging that archaic version while Debian Unstable/Ubuntu Karmic got a mix of recent (3.4) and archaic (CDT at 3.1) versions.


Admitting that you can get the latest version of Eclipse on Debian doesn't support your argument in any way. It does quite the opposite.

Up-to-date packages for Eclipse on Ubuntu. Many console emulators on Ubuntu and Fedora. Hotkey utilities for my previous laptop on most distributions. Hundreds of small libre programs or libraries you can find on the Internet (either on Freshmeat or SF). Needless to say, most proprietary software are not in repositories, even if there is no libre alternative. I could go on.


You could go on? Then please do because the only specific package you mention is Eclipse and no average user is going to be using Eclipse for anything nevermind the fact that the latest Eclipse is available for Ubuntu.

Now, you won't have to go beyond repositories if you merely use your PC for mundane tasks.


So are you changing your mind now or what? You're starting to agree with me.

There is no doubt that updating these systems is quite a chore.


It's not just a chore. It's a disaster. There is no central reporting tool to tell you when a new security release is available and little to no package verification when you do actually download an update.

Edited 2009-08-24 19:29 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[8]: Comment by ven-
by Wrawrat on Mon 24th Aug 2009 20:18 in reply to "RE[7]: Comment by ven-"
Wrawrat Member since:
2005-06-30

Are you listening to yourself? You argument is that because you claim it is bad then it must be bad. That's not very convincing.

Where did I claim that it is bad? Looks like you don't even bother to read.

Admitting that you can get the latest version of Eclipse on Debian doesn't support your argument in any way. It does quite the opposite.

Except that Debian doesn't have the latest version...

You could go on? Then please do because the only specific package you mention is Eclipse and no average user is going to be using Eclipse for anything nevermind the fact that the latest Eclipse is available for Ubuntu.

Does it matter that the average user won't use Eclipse? Repositories are for everyone, from the clueless noob to the developer.

Anyway, I won't bother to list packges you don't know as it would be futile, just like discussing about Eclipse. By the way, the latest version is 3.5/CDT 6.0, while Karmic/Unstable got 3.4/CDT 3.1... Fortunately, you can run the IDE from the tarball found on Eclipse's website.

So are you changing your mind now or what? You're starting to agree with me.


Actually, I never claimed that repositories were a bad idea. They are quite great.

However, you seem to claim that everything you will ever need is in a repository... From my experience, this is not the case, hence why I'd like to see a system for installing packages outside repositories in a distribution-neutral way.

To what I remember, there is Autopackage but it never really caught on...

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[9]: Comment by ven-
by vivainio on Mon 24th Aug 2009 20:44 in reply to "RE[8]: Comment by ven-"
vivainio Member since:
2008-12-26

However, you seem to claim that everything you will ever need is in a repository... From my experience, this is not the case, hence why I'd like to see a system for installing packages outside repositories in a distribution-neutral way.

To what I remember, there is Autopackage but it never really caught on...

You seem to confuse what you think would be "nice to have" with what you really need.

Autopackage was relevant before Ubuntu came about and cleaned the table.

What you really need is a way to install software by downloading the installer and double-clicking it. And you got that already, the installer is the .deb file.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[9]: Comment by ven-
by abraxas on Tue 25th Aug 2009 12:54 in reply to "RE[8]: Comment by ven-"
abraxas Member since:
2005-07-07

Where did I claim that it is bad? Looks like you don't even bother to read.


You claimed that the repository system is bad because it doesn't always have what you want. The point of what I was saying is that you can't prove something by just saying it and that's what you're trying to do.

Except that Debian doesn't have the latest version...


You're right about that. I didn't realize that a new version came out two weeks ago. Calling that a deal-breaker is a bit far fetched though, especially since it is relatively easy to obtain outside the repos.

Anyway, I won't bother to list packges you don't know as it would be futile


Nice cop out. It just proves you are just repeating BS and don't have any personal reasons for your dislike of a centralized packaging system.

However, you seem to claim that everything you will ever need is in a repository... From my experience, this is not the case, hence why I'd like to see a system for installing packages outside repositories in a distribution-neutral way.


The only thing you have shown is that you cannot get a two week old version of Eclipse. While that may be a tad annoying for someone who has more interest in the latest and greatest than getting stuff done it is really a stretch to claim that it makes Linux user un-friendly.

Reply Parent Score: 3