Linked by Kroc Camen on Mon 24th Aug 2009 13:09 UTC
Podcasts

Linux user Tess Flynn joins us to follow up on the feedback from last week's episode about Xorg.

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Comment by ideasman42
by ideasman42 on Tue 25th Aug 2009 06:46 UTC
ideasman42
Member since:
2007-07-20

@jabjoe, XCB's the one, I didnt recall the name, but on the other hand. How can you convince projects to switch that are already using XLib? - It breaks compat with older unix's, for a nicer API (but still requires rewriting parts of the app that currently work). - A shame really.

@jjmckay, agree that this is more complicated then people give it credit for, while I didnt ever do Xorg development, my experience is that often making something simple for the user can end up being fairly complicated for the developer. When hardware compatibility is involved its worse.

@diego, maybe they have no idea but theirs is more of a user perception, nothing wrong with this but when outsiders (non Xorg core-devs in this case) speculate on a projects direction, I find it almost laughable.
Maybe the problem is the X11 api, maybe its the drivers, maybe its sloppy code??? - speculating on this without some understanding the xorg internals is stupid, better interview someone who knows what their talking about.

Edited 2009-08-25 06:47 UTC

Reply Score: 1

RE: Comment by ideasman42
by diegoviola on Tue 25th Aug 2009 08:23 in reply to "Comment by ideasman42"
diegoviola Member since:
2006-08-15


@diego, maybe they have no idea but theirs is more of a user perception, nothing wrong with this


That's what I mean, nothing wrong with constructive critics, in fact, that's good.


but when outsiders (non Xorg core-devs in this case) speculate on a projects direction, I find it almost laughable.


Agreed, that's what I tried to say.


Maybe the problem is the X11 api, maybe its the drivers, maybe its sloppy code??? - speculating on this without some understanding the xorg internals is stupid, better interview someone who knows what their talking about.


Exactly.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE: Comment by ideasman42
by jabjoe on Tue 25th Aug 2009 09:59 in reply to "Comment by ideasman42"
jabjoe Member since:
2009-05-06


@jabjoe, XCB's the one, I didnt recall the name, but on the other hand. How can you convince projects to switch that are already using XLib? - It breaks compat with older unix's, for a nicer API (but still requires rewriting parts of the app that currently work). - A shame really.

I thought it was compatible, but on checking it's not. But that's not as a big deal as it could be:


Xlib/XCB provides application binary interface compatibility with both Xlib and XCB, providing an incremental porting path. Xlib/XCB uses the protocol layer of Xlib, but replaces the Xlib transport layer with XCB, and provides access to the underlying XCB connection for direct use of XCB. Most distributions nowadays use Xlib/XCB for their libX11, because by opening a single connection to the X server this allows to mix usage of XCB and Xlib in an application and the libraries it uses.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xcb


Most applications aren't link directly against XLib anyway, but to QT/GTK these could/should be changed to take advantage of XCB, especially since Xlib/XCB is below anyway.

From what I'm skimmed, other Unixs, also have XCB.

In some ways its bad that XCB hasn't completely succeeded or completely failed. But with XLib/XCB as libX11 and everyone using widget kits anyway, it's not too bad, as long as the widget kits get the most out of what is below.

But maybe I'm missing some important facts.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[2]: Comment by ideasman42
by ideasman42 on Tue 25th Aug 2009 11:45 in reply to "RE: Comment by ideasman42"
ideasman42 Member since:
2007-07-20

Thanks for looking into this,
For Blender3D we use X11 directly but only to setup the OpenGL context, pass on events & copy/paste, there are about ~2000 lines of xlib code in total.
We also have some crazy guys that still support Irix (and solaris but at least thats not EOL'd yet), not sure if this is supported without static linking, would need to look into that too.

While using Xlib is a total PITA to work with, its rare that it needs updating so theres not much incentive to switch.

The only thing that would make me interested in doing this, is if it was faster or somehow gave a better user experience.

Reply Parent Score: 1