Linked by Thom Holwerda on Mon 7th Sep 2009 22:38 UTC, submitted by EvilWells
Debian and its clones Developer Frans Pop, author of debtree, posted an article showing the evolution in size of the GNOME desktop environment in recent Debian releases. The picture he paints isn't particularly pretty: the default GNOME install has increased drastically in size over the years.
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Get off my lawn!
by apoclypse on Mon 7th Sep 2009 23:00 UTC
apoclypse
Member since:
2007-02-17

If you read his post he sounds like an old fuddy duddy user who doesn't want his linux install to actually recognize has hardware when he plugs it in, or his desktop to look nice. He should be using TWM and motif and shut the f--k up.

I actually want my desktop to do something. I don]t want it to be a whole bunch of disparate applications like it used to be in 1998. I want my desktop to look nice. It seems to be a general consensus among desktop users if current trends are any indication. I'm not defending Gnome growing in size if and only if there wasn't any functionality added, but that is not the case.

That' not to say that Gnome and Kde couldn't use more optimization and a better grasp of dependencies.

So, no sir, you get off my lawn, and take that old man smell with you.

Edited 2009-09-07 23:03 UTC

Reply Score: 11

RE: Get off my lawn!
by t3RRa on Mon 7th Sep 2009 23:14 in reply to "Get off my lawn!"
t3RRa Member since:
2005-11-22

You are going too extreme. If one is not happy with the size of GNOME, should go for only twm? There are so many window managers and desktops out there like xfce, enlightenment 6 & 7, fvwm, WindowMaker, Afterstep and on and on. Xfce is quite usable with some enough eyecandy I reckon.. and what about Enlightenment 7? so slim and lots of eyecandy.


BTW, please get off from his lawn!

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[2]: Get off my lawn!
by bannor99 on Tue 8th Sep 2009 02:19 in reply to "RE: Get off my lawn!"
bannor99 Member since:
2005-09-15

I recommend giving LXde a try if you want a leaner, faster desktop; works well for me.

http://www.lxde.org/lxde

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE: Get off my lawn!
by abraxas on Mon 7th Sep 2009 23:14 in reply to "Get off my lawn!"
abraxas Member since:
2005-07-07

If you read his post he sounds like an old fuddy duddy user who doesn't want his linux install to actually recognize has hardware when he plugs it in, or his desktop to look nice


Agreed. I used to love WindowMaker and still do to some degree but I switched to GNOME years ago because I found myself writing all kinds of scripts, patches, and other hacks to automate my desktop. It gets old after a while and I'd rather have a nice desktop that just works. GNOME fits that bill for me. If they stripped out of the functionality that the author seems to be complaining about I might as well go back to WindowMaker.

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE: Get off my lawn!
by sbergman27 on Mon 7th Sep 2009 23:17 in reply to "Get off my lawn!"
sbergman27 Member since:
2005-07-24

If you read his post he sounds like an old fuddy duddy user who doesn't want his linux install to actually recognize has hardware when he plugs it in

Agreed. Now, I'm a big believer in making things as simple as possible... but no simpler. And I imagine there is room for simplification in places. But I learned a long time ago that when people prepare dependency graphs to make a point about complexity, it's time to take the same skeptical attitude as when a professional magician walks out on stage. Depending upon exactly how the graphs are laid out, they can make the complex look simple, or the simple look complex... without being particularly obvious about it.

What the author needs to show is *specifically* how things could be simplified without sacrificing functionality.

Edited 2009-09-07 23:21 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE: Get off my lawn!
by marcp on Mon 7th Sep 2009 23:45 in reply to "Get off my lawn!"
marcp Member since:
2007-11-23

If you read his post he sounds like an old fuddy duddy user who doesn't want his linux install to actually recognize has hardware when he plugs it in, or his desktop to look nice. He should be using TWM and motif and shut the f--k up.

Uhm ... okay, but most of the recent tools started to DEPEND on the useless, utter crap like HAL and UDEV and you can't really do much about it UNLESS you compile your own kernel. Is that fair? no. Is that against KISS philosophy? well, surely!

I actually want my desktop to do something. I don]t want it to be a whole bunch of disparate applications like it used to be in 1998. I want my desktop to look nice. It seems to be a general consensus among desktop users if current trends are any indication. I'm not defending Gnome growing in size if and only if there wasn't any functionality added, but that is not the case.

Well, there are few types of users and I'm certainly not like you. I for example don't want the desktop to get in my way ... and I hate automation. BTW - that's why I don't use Windows or Mac ... ;)

That' not to say that Gnome and Kde couldn't use more optimization and a better grasp of dependencies.

It's not about a code optimization when the desktop env loads a @#%@load of never-to-be-used crap ...

Edited 2009-09-07 23:47 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: Get off my lawn!
by No it isnt on Tue 8th Sep 2009 15:32 in reply to "RE: Get off my lawn!"
No it isnt Member since:
2005-11-14

Just what exactly is your problem with HAL and udev?

If you hate automation, you should be using pen and paper, not a computer.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE: Get off my lawn!
by marafaka on Tue 8th Sep 2009 11:14 in reply to "Get off my lawn!"
marafaka Member since:
2006-01-03

"I want my desktop to look nice. It seems to be a general consensus among desktop users if current trends are any indication."

That's because you are not a professional who's primary focus is finishing his job. And because you probably never saw an expert's workstation and deduce conclusions from flashing your weeny with your best friends. There's simply no other explanation for your attitude.

On the other hand, the state of modern computing *is* embarrassing; not because of lack of flashiness but because of the chaotic state of the industry.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: Get off my lawn!
by BluenoseJake on Tue 8th Sep 2009 15:05 in reply to "RE: Get off my lawn!"
BluenoseJake Member since:
2005-08-11

It's not about looking nice, it's about things working when plug them in, which HAL helps with. It is about automation. I don't want to have to worry about crap not working unless i write a script, or configure something.

If I plug in a printer, I want the damn thing to be able to print. If I plug in a USB drive, I don't want to have to mount the thing myself, I want it automounted.

I am a professional, and I don't have time to be screwing around with scripts and the command line to get basic functionality.

Maybe your time isn't worth very much, but my time is. I'd rather spend it working.

Edited 2009-09-08 15:06 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[2]: Get off my lawn!
by apoclypse on Tue 8th Sep 2009 15:22 in reply to "RE: Get off my lawn!"
apoclypse Member since:
2007-02-17

"I want my desktop to look nice. It seems to be a general consensus among desktop users if current trends are any indication."

That's because you are not a professional who's primary focus is finishing his job. And because you probably never saw an expert's workstation and deduce conclusions from flashing your weeny with your best friends. There's simply no other explanation for your attitude.

On the other hand, the state of modern computing *is* embarrassing; not because of lack of flashiness but because of the chaotic state of the industry.



Funny you say thta because I happen to be a professional audio engineer and graphic designer who, you know, actually makes money doing what I do.

But you know us artistic folks we do nothing but waste time on little things like usability and ease of use and having things actually look and sound nice. In-fact those who actually use other OSes where these things are important seem to do more work. No one here is going to argue against that there are more working professionals using OSX and Windows than Linux.

Its human nature, people want nice things, its make them feel better. Case in point. I've owned a copy of Logic since version 6 but didn't really start to use it until version 8. Why? The UI sucked, it was a mess, it made no sense and it looked like pure ass. 8 changed that, the UI is nice to look at now and the functionality has been revamped to coincide with the new look. 9 has taken it even further.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE: Get off my lawn!
by l3v1 on Tue 8th Sep 2009 13:53 in reply to "Get off my lawn!"
l3v1 Member since:
2005-07-06

I'm not defending Gnome growing in size if and only if there wasn't any functionality added, but that is not the case.


Well, if we had as much more % of functionality as we see more % in size, that would be magnificent. Sad thing is, all this isn't a unique "feature" of Gnome, a lot of Linux apps follow this same path of growing more in size than in features.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE: Get off my lawn! - KDE3
by jabbotts on Tue 8th Sep 2009 21:34 in reply to "Get off my lawn!"
jabbotts Member since:
2007-09-06

I pushed a machine from Lenny to Squeeze. Sure, squeeze is in testing status and things are expected to break but there was enough difference between KDE3.5 and KDE4 that the system ended up a broken mess. Ye 'ol dist-upgrade went badly and I ended up scrapping the entire system for a clean Squeeze install.

Now having both Lenny and Squeeze machines running, I can tell you that KDE3 is a heck of a lot more efficient. The stuff that supports hardware is all well and good but forcing KDE4 rather than allowing a smooth transition to Squeeze with KDE3.5. I like the graphic bling on the small box but the big box with KDE3 runs a heck of a lot better.

Reply Parent Score: 2