Linked by Thom Holwerda on Mon 7th Sep 2009 22:38 UTC, submitted by EvilWells
Debian and its clones Developer Frans Pop, author of debtree, posted an article showing the evolution in size of the GNOME desktop environment in recent Debian releases. The picture he paints isn't particularly pretty: the default GNOME install has increased drastically in size over the years.
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RE: Comment by kaiwai
by Karitku on Tue 8th Sep 2009 12:02 UTC in reply to "Comment by kaiwai"
Karitku
Member since:
2006-01-12

You are wrong. What we clearly need is people who use these software to contribute by coding. Surely anyone can code, it's not much harder than learning new language. We don't need leaders and heavy organizations, community driven model is much better since person who codes what ever he likes makes best code. Did you know that time that it took for you to write this complaint you could have improved those things by contributing code that could have saved baby seal ... Wait a minute, this isn't my MOSS cup, FO...

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: Comment by kaiwai
by darknexus on Tue 8th Sep 2009 14:29 in reply to "RE: Comment by kaiwai"
darknexus Member since:
2008-07-15

You are wrong. What we clearly need is people who use these software to contribute by coding. Surely anyone can code, it's not much harder than learning new language.


Wow, what planet are you living on exactly? Or is it a parallel universe where most people work for the computer instead of having the computer help them get their work done? Most users do not want to code, do not ever want to know how the computer does what it does, and shouldn't have to care. This is a growing attitude problem in the foss community of late, next thing we all know if people like you had your say we'd all have to contribute x amount of coding hours before the software would even work for us. Ridiculous.

We don't need leaders and heavy organizations, community driven model is much better


Which is why the community-driven model has resulted in such a rat's nest? We really do need someone to take the rains and say to all the developers: "This is where we are going, if you don't like it go code somewhere else or start your own project." A thousand people pulling in a thousand little directions is precisely the problem. They need to lay it down and stick to it. That's how Microsoft and Apple got where they are--they know what they want and that's the end they code for. It doesn't please everyone but, as the massive ubiquity of Windows should tell you, it's good enough for the average Joe. That's also the reason Apple is on the rise at least in the U.S, they're delivering an attractive alternative to a good majority of people (myself included). Is it perfect? No. Do they clearly have a design in mind? You bet your ass.

person who codes what ever he likes makes best code.


Agreed, but there are low level things that almost no one ever likes to work on and those get neglected under the current community-driven model. While the person who codes what they enjoy certainly writes the best code, what about those parts that are necessary but that no one enjoys (low level abstraction, debugging, adding features that are demanded but aren't wanted by the coder)? There are a lot of projects that become abandonware or otherwise don't really improve because once the coder is done and it "works for me" as most of them seem to say, it needs tested and debugged in a variety of different setups. It's not fun, it's not glamorous, but it is necessary... and almost no one in the foss world really wants to sit down with their projects and really iron out all the bugs that are reported by users. Do you know how many legitimate bugs get triaged by developers who either don't think it's an issue or just don't want to deal with it, and that's if the users are lucky and don't get a response back saying something egotistical to the effect of"Well, if you can't fix it, shut the f**k up?" Most of those responses come from people with your view, I would guess... the egotistical children of foss.

Did you know that time that it took for you to write this complaint you could have improved those things by contributing code?


Oh, sure. Provided upstream likes it of course and allows the fix in, as long as it doesn't stomp on some other idiot's ego that someone else dare modify his feature or add something new. And don't tell me it never happens (Glibc, anyone?).

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[3]: Comment by kaiwai
by cjst on Tue 8th Sep 2009 15:36 in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by kaiwai"
cjst Member since:
2009-03-30


" We don't need leaders and heavy organizations, community driven model is much better


Which is why the community-driven model has resulted in such a rat's nest? We really do need someone to take the rains and say to all the developers: "This is where we are going, if you don't like it go code somewhere else or start your own project." A thousand people pulling in a thousand little directions is precisely the problem. They need to lay it down and stick to it.
"

Note also that Linux kernel development doesn't work this way either. Patches that don't adhere to the (high) standards of the Linux kernel get rejected, and there's a leader namely Linus.

Distros should do the same. Reject apps/libraries written in exotic languages, with exotic dependencies, not modular or fork them.

Reply Parent Score: 1