Linked by Thom Holwerda on Wed 23rd Sep 2009 13:25 UTC
Hardware, Embedded Systems We have a new chapter in the Palm Pre and iTunes saga. We all remember that the Pre could sync with iTunes, but that Apple wasn't particularly keen on this. The Cupertino company issued an iTunes which intentionally broke Pre syncing, but Palm retorted by re-enabling it not long after. Palm also sent a complaint to the USB Implementers Forum about Apple's behaviour, but the USB-IF squarely sides with Apple.
Thread beginning with comment 385707
To view parent comment, click here.
To read all comments associated with this story, please click here.
RE: seems like the right ruling
by Tony Swash on Wed 23rd Sep 2009 14:31 UTC in reply to "seems like the right ruling"
Tony Swash
Member since:
2009-08-22

Apple limiting iTunes connectivity to there own hardware products is a little scummy and sad.


Why is that scummy and sad? The whole of the Apple product design philosophy is based on tying hardware design very closely to software design so as to produce an unusually seamless experience for the user. This design philosophy is what underpins the attraction of Apple products to the consumer and hence the success of the company.

Why should Apple let the products of other companies, over which they have no control and whose quality could vary wildly, dilute and disturb the careful software/hardware harmony they have strived so hard to achieve. If Palm want to emulate the Apple iPhone/iTunes bundle fine - but they shouldn't try intrude into and disrupt the careful product ecosystems that Apple has created and then expect Apple to help them

Other companies have other design models. Microsoft for example writes software to run on any old combination of kit that a manufacturer cobbles together - this model has been very successful in the past but it seems to be less successful now, particularly in the new emerging mobile technology markets. Its telling that Microsoft has been drawn more and more into making its own hardware to run its software (Zune, xbox, etc) its just a shame that they seem to make such weak, mediocre, derivative crap from which they seem to make no profit at all. Its also telling that the Zune doesn't work with macs - luckily it doesn't matter.

Reply Parent Score: 4

jabbotts Member since:
2007-09-06

well, I do realize that I'm not the target customer for Apple's products.

I say scummy because they are limiting a media manager to a single portable player. "Sure, we'll sell you music but you have to install our music manager and you have to use our portable media player." It benefits Apple's shareholders much more than it's customers. This limitation is purely a political business decision versus an actual limitation of the technologies involved.

Accept for a few bad design choices, the iPhone is a very nice bit of hardware to be honest. I'd be hard pressed to turn one down and would even consider spending my own money on it if those decisions where reconsidered. The biggest thing I tripped over when activating one for a client; one must activate it by proving they have a Windows or osX machine with iTunes installed before it's of use though. This is not due to some limitation of the technology but a business decision to force the user's subscription to iTunes. This does not relate directly to the USB issue but it illustrates the same imposed brand loyalty.

I say Sad because the consumer public eats these products up blindly accepting crippled hardware. I wouldn't mind the consumer market getting what it deserves in the same way the US voting public get the government they deserve if the outcome of both votes didn't effect me as much. In terms of Apple, they have a business model including very strong strategy to lock customers in through barriers designed to limit consumer choice and it's sad that the consumers allow it to be such a successful model.

Allowing a consumer who's given Apple money through iTunes to connect a non Apple music player and load content does not dilute the apple experience. iTunes would not suddenly operate differently because it's attached to a none-Apple device.

I do agree that Palm should not spoof hardware identifications or go through other efforts to break the authentication between iWhatever and iTunes. That does not mean I have to accept Apple's decision to bind two naturally separate products together clearly limiting consumer choice.

The topic here isn't what other companies outside of Apple and Palm are doing.

I do feel that what Palm is doing is more wrong than what Apple is doing. And again, I realize I'm not Apple's target customer. Hopefully in a few months I'll be looking at the iPhone and N900 side by side for a close comparison.

Reply Parent Score: 3

darknexus Member since:
2008-07-15

Why do you have to use an iPod or other Apple product to play music from the iTunes store? Apple has removed the DRM from all iTunes music, any player that can play MP4/AAC (most of them on the market) can play iTunes music files now. However, I agree with the rest of your point and the restriction still applies to all other things purchased from the iTunes store such as videos and audiobooks (blame the movie industry and Amazon for those restrictions still being imposed).

Reply Parent Score: 2

mrhasbean Member since:
2006-04-03

Apple limiting iTunes connectivity to there own hardware products is a little scummy and sad that the public accepts this without question.


Apple aren't the only ones doing this - others have been doing this for years, even long before USB. Did HP scanners work with Canon scanner software? Same for digital cameras and printers. Some external hard drives - going back a number of years now - were even bundled with software that would only work with those drives. Some of those software packages also allowed you to access services or products that were limited to that software - especially packages offering photo printing and downloadable templates that you could purchase online - they only worked with that software / hardware combo.

Companies have been doing this for years - the difference here is that people don't like it because Apple have made a huge success of the iPod and ITMS, so all of a sudden it's scummy...

Reply Parent Score: 2

WorknMan Member since:
2005-11-13

Why should Apple let the products of other companies, over which they have no control and whose quality could vary wildly, dilute and disturb the careful software/hardware harmony they have strived so hard to achieve.


There's a big difference between not supporting products of other companies interfacing with your stuff, and taking steps to actively prevent them from doing so. We had this same discussion on this site when they did the same thing to Real Networks.

I do agree that it's Apple's right to do this, but it's still scummy.

Reply Parent Score: 3

StephenBeDoper Member since:
2005-07-06

The whole of the Apple product design philosophy is based on tying hardware design very closely to software design so as to produce an unusually seamless experience for the user.


That's all well and good - but tight integration between hardware and software doesn't automatically make it necessary to lock-out third-party software.

Why should Apple let the products of other companies, over which they have no control and whose quality could vary wildly, dilute and disturb the careful software/hardware harmony they have strived so hard to achieve.


By that reasoning, Apple shouldn't allow 3rd-party software to run on OS X at all. After all, many of those applications are the products of other companies, over which Apple has no control and whose quality could vary wildly, diluting and disturbing yada yada yada.

If Palm want to emulate the Apple iPhone/iTunes bundle fine - but they shouldn't try intrude into and disrupt the careful product ecosystems that Apple has created and then expect Apple to help them


When has anyone from Palm ever stated that they expect Apple to help them? There's a difference between actively helping someone - and simply refraining from hindering them, everything I've seen indicates that Palm would be happy with the latter.

Edited 2009-09-23 17:32 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 5

phoudoin Member since:
2006-06-09

The whole of the Apple product design philosophy is based on tying hardware design very closely to software design so as to produce an unusually seamless experience for the user.


In your dream.
The whole of the Apple product design philosophy is on tying software with hardware (not the reverse) to sell *their* hardware.

There is numerous examples when end user experience was not as *unsually seamless* as they would expect from Apple.

I sometimes work under or develop for Mac OS X, but that the two reasons why I never bought myself any product from Apple.

The third one is Apple $1 = 1 euro policy. Same reason why I don't buy Nintendo products, too. Hello guys, if I could read currency trading table, you guys could too!...

Reply Parent Score: 2

alcibiades Member since:
2005-10-12

The whole of the Apple product design philosophy is based on tying hardware design very closely to software design so as to produce an unusually seamless experience for the user. This design philosophy is what underpins the attraction of Apple products to the consumer and hence the success of the company.


No, its to produce lockin and so increased sales. Then the marketing takes over and talks nonsense about how OSX relates differently to an Intel processor and a standard hard drive and graphics card and main board than some other OS. Integrated! Does that mean the drivers work? Or that the connectors fit?

This is what makes Apple an ethically challenged company, and what makes lots of us want to have nothing to do with it. OS, hardware, or the wonderfully integrated pair of them. Or iTunes either, integrated with the iPod or not.

Reply Parent Score: 1

andydread Member since:
2009-02-02

Because if Apple gets Microsoft like market share then may god help us all. there would be no choice. Apple and the Apple's apologists would love to see us all forced to use apple products. You Apple apologists and trolls would love to see nothing but Apple products in the market place. I say SCREW Apple and the Apple trolls who jump and any chance to defend everything that Apple does yet scream when any other company does what Apple does. Its blatant hypocrisy. Its OK for apple to be anticompetitive but not OK for anyone else to do the same. Apple is a DRACONIAN company. The hate competition and you people are OK with their scummy practices.

Reply Parent Score: 2