Linked by Thom Holwerda on Thu 24th Sep 2009 13:35 UTC, submitted by Hiev
Mono Project If you don't like personal, blog-style reporting, you might want to skip this item. A few days ago, during a speech at Software Freedom Day in Boston, Richard Stallman has, at least in my book, crossed a line that I thought he would never cross.
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ebasconp
Member since:
2006-05-09


Mono, on the other hand, is a reimplementation of a MS technology. It pushes MS own agenda with .Net. Remember Win32 is dying and MS needs to make all the world swith to .Net. The more people making programs with .Net, the better for MS. Mono isn't really a problem for MS, because it doesn't implement the Windows GUI, it uses Gtk, which .Net doesn't include. So most .Net applications are Windows only, which is good for MS. You can't run all .Net applications with mono, so there's no problem at all.



1. Win32 api dying? everything written on Windows ultimately executes win32 api functions... Such API is, arguely, one of the bests C APIs written ever.... it is huge, it cares a lof of backwards compatibility, it covers a lot of the Windows functionality and so on.

2. Mono implements 100% of Windows Forms on top of Cairo.

3. Anyway, the nice part in Mono is not the MS part, but the new ecosystem they are building: Gtk#, Posix, their ahead of time compiler, their support not just for Linux, but for BSD, Solaris and Mac, SIMD, their programmatically callable C# compiler; and technologies like Moonlight and their new MonoTouch.

If we see just the politics on everything that occurs, the essential gets invisible to our eyes...

Technologically, Mono is a brilliant effort.

Edited 2009-09-25 03:41 UTC

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Ed W. Cogburn Member since:
2009-07-24

1. Win32 api dying? everything written on Windows ultimately executes win32 api functions


Including .NET, correct. I believe the GP is incorrect here. The real reason for .NET has always been to kill Java/JVM and give MS more control over how their OS is used. Anything that becomes a "must-have" on Windows for the typical user is something that MS must control themselves, thus we've had IE to replace Netscape, CLR/C# to replace Java, Silverlight to replace Flash, etc.

Such API is, arguely, one of the bests C APIs written ever....


You're right, this is definitely arguable. ;)

2. Mono implements 100% of Windows Forms on top of Cairo.


And therein lies the danger of using Mono. Winforms, ASP.NET, etc, aren't covered in the ECMA standard, only the foundation of the stack, CLR, CIL, C#, etc., is covered.

3. Anyway, the nice part in Mono is not the MS part, but the new ecosystem they are building:


In the long run this is an ecosystem that will always be controlled by MS, and will always be playing catch-up with what MS is doing with CLR/C# on Windows. No one seriously believes that Icaza/Novell by themselves can keep Mono in-line with MS's Windows versions of CLR/C#. And worst of all, at any time, MS could shut them down if they wanted to, because of their implementations of Winforms and ASP.NET. Not that that is likely now or in the near future, since having Mono in existence is politically useful to MS, but in the long run, Mono's fate is controlled not by Icaza, or Novell, or Mono's users, but by MS. Hence the problem some have with using Mono.

If we see just the politics on everything that occurs, the essential gets invisible to our eyes...


Most of the time, unfortunately, politics is the essential part...

Technologically, Mono is a brilliant effort.


True, on technical grounds C# is an improvement over Java (like unsigned integers) and CLR has some features that the JVM should have had at the start (like dynamic language support), of course MS had the advantage of coming with CLR/C# long after Java, so they could fix the mistakes originally made by Sun.

In the real world however, technical sophistication doesn't guarantee success. If it did, we'd all have been using Betamax cassettes instead of VHS all these years. Why not Betamax you ask? Because back then Sony acted a lot like MS does now, but since the industry wasn't controlled by any Sony "monopoly", it was free to go in a different direction, one which was less technically sophisticated, but at least one not controlled by a single gatekeeper...

If you're only concerned with the Windows world then using MS's stuff is an obvious no-brainer. For those not in the Windows ecosystem however, using MS-controlled technology makes little sense, and is inherently dangerous, because you aren't in their ecosystem - which is the only one they care about.

Those who've been around long enough to witness MS's anti-competitive and monopolistic practices for the last 2 decades or so, aren't going to touch Mono. For most folks out there on a non-MS OS, its simply a non-starter.

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google_ninja Member since:
2006-02-05

Not to mention stuff like Mono.cecil and their REPL. My day job is doing ASP.net, and I've got mono installed as well as .net for the REPL. There is just no substitute if you want to do some quick exploratory coding to try out an idea.

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