Linked by Thom Holwerda on Mon 28th Sep 2009 20:37 UTC
As you all undoubtedly know, the European Union and Microsoft are trying to work out some sort of a settlement regarding the Internet Explorer case. Microsoft made a very detailed proposal for a browser ballot screen earlier this year, and the EU was relatively satisfied. Now, various browser makers have told Reuters that they are not satisfied with Microsoft's proposal.
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RE[3]: I think the EU should just order Opera to
by wumip on Wed 30th Sep 2009 17:06
in reply to "RE[2]: I think the EU should just order Opera to"
Member since:2009-08-20
IIRC, Microsoft's proposal was to ship Windows without any browser at all, and let OEMs put whatever browser they wanted on there.
Yes, that was their first proposal. Or rather, they simply announced that they were going to do it. Bad idea. Not only would it not restore competition, and would have been deemed insufficient anyway, but they risked pissing off the authorities.
I don't remember if Opera themselves pushed it, I think they did, but the EC was, and was doing that to address Opera's complaints.
Stop whining about Opera alread. All they did was to report Microsoft's crimes. After that, all they have done is to offer their perspective, just like Google and Mozilla. They have no authority what so ever.
Anyway, Opera has whined multiple times now wrt the implementation of the ballot, with their complaints getting increasingly petty.
Nice trolling. The fact is that Google, Mozilla AND Opera have pointed out severe flaws with Microsoft's proposal. That is not WHINING, that's paying attention to what Microsoft is doing because you know MS is going to try to pull a fast one as usual.
Correcting mistakes and pointing out problems is only "whining" in the world of trolls.
I present a final solution to this "problem",
by MollyC on Fri 2nd Oct 2009 07:08
in reply to "RE[3]: I think the EU should just order Opera to"
Member since:2006-07-04
which is letting Opera code up the ballot as they see fit, and you, who are on Opera's side, get mad and accuse me of trolling? What better solution, from Opera's perspective, would there be than letting Opera handle the ballot? You know what? I don't think you want a solution, you want the "issue". No matter what solution is presented, you (and Opera) will reject it simply in order to keep the "issue" "alive".
BTW, if "restoring competition" is the issue, then that'll never happen as far as Opera is concerned. They can get the EU to handcuff Microsoft all they want, but they still can't even compete with Firefox, Chrome, or Safari. What's next, they sick the EU on Mozilla, Google, and Apple?
RE[3]: I think the EU should just order Opera to
by lemur2 on Thu 1st Oct 2009 03:49
in reply to "RE[2]: I think the EU should just order Opera to"
Member since:2007-02-17
IIRC, Microsoft's proposal was to ship Windows without any browser at all, and let OEMs put whatever browser they wanted on there.
What would be best for users?
Getting no browser, or letting OEMs decide, doesn't seem to me to be a great outcome for users.
Users are best served by having a viable competition in the marketplace, so that users may choose. On Linux that would not be a problem, because Linux has a facility called "package management" that lets users choose which software they want to install without requiring a browser to do it.
Here is an example (with a screenshot) in case you are unfamiliar with this:
http://fosswire.com/post/2007/4/introducing-ubuntus-addremove-packa...
Because Windows is as incomplete as it is, with essentially no package management, this process is far more difficult. It is this lack in Windows that the "browser ballot" is attempting to overcome ... but even then this ballot is limited to just a choice of the browser. Users can still find themselves locked in to a bad choice that they won't be able to "undo" later.
I'd actually prefer to see IE follow web standards (say to the level of passing acid3 tests). That way if users chose IE on a ballot (perhaps because they were not well informed) it wouldn't be a bad choice (even if it were still irrevocable).
I wouldn't mind even if IE were bundled with Windows as it currently is, with no ballot, provided that IE followed web standards (say to the acid3 level at this time). That way at least the people who were creating rich content for the web, and people who were hosting rich web content created by others, would have a choice of software, even if Windows users were still stuck with IE to view the content.
Edited 2009-10-01 03:56 UTC
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Member since:
2006-07-04
IIRC, Microsoft's proposal was to ship Windows without any browser at all, and let OEMs put whatever browser they wanted on there. The EC didn't like that (read, "Do that, and face a billion dollar fine"), and preferred the ballot scheme, a scheme they had already been pushing for a long time. I don't remember if Opera themselves pushed it, I think they did, but the EC was, and was doing that to address Opera's complaints.
Anyway, Opera has whined multiple times now wrt the implementation of the ballot, with their complaints getting increasingly petty. So let them implement the ballot and make Microsoft use whatever they implement, and get this thing over with.