Linked by Thom Holwerda on Thu 22nd Oct 2009 21:53 UTC
Windows I never thought it was possible, but as it turns out, Microsoft has managed to produce some pretty good commercials for its brand new operating system, Windows 7. They are quite product-oriented, and carry the slogan "I'm a PC and Windows 7 was my idea".
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RE[3]: What features?
by Stratoukos on Fri 23rd Oct 2009 08:43 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: What features?"
Stratoukos
Member since:
2009-02-11

people had to get used to UAC (people say UAC is annoying, it is really no different than sudo or OS X's pirvleage elevation system, people just weren't used to it)


No, it's not. In OS X (and linux afaik) you only need to sudo when installing something, when you mess with protected files and when you change system setings. I can't understand why people keep saying that a system needing administrative rights to do the simplest things is a good thing.

In my opinion UAC is not only annoying, but also ineffective. Given enough false positives, users will start ignoring it. And since false positives are the only thing I've ever seen from UAC that's what everybody is doing. If it would fire up only once a month (when needed), then a user wouldn't be so eager to press continue.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[4]: What features?
by Thom_Holwerda on Fri 23rd Oct 2009 09:34 in reply to "RE[3]: What features?"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

No, it's not. In OS X (and linux afaik) you only need to sudo when installing something, when you mess with protected files and when you change system setings.


Which are exactly the ONLY use cases for UAC, too.

Reply Parent Score: 0

RE[5]: What features?
by r_a_trip on Fri 23rd Oct 2009 11:16 in reply to "RE[4]: What features?"
r_a_trip Member since:
2005-07-06

Which are exactly the ONLY use cases for UAC, too.

True, but MS failed to separate the user completely from the underlying system. E.g in Vista there was a mix of user files and global files on the desktop. While UAC responded correctly to actions which required elevated privileges, the context in which these prompts occured were illogical.

When I'm messing about on my own desktop or in my own user folder, I don't want to see privilege escalation prompts. What is in my account, should be my files with permissions set to my privilege level.

Vista's UAC was right on the money in the need for privelege escalation for certain actions, but Vista failed to cleanly separate the users own environment from the system. Which resulted in vexing prompts which seemed to make no sense.

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[4]: What features?
by CPUGuy on Fri 23rd Oct 2009 19:14 in reply to "RE[3]: What features?"
CPUGuy Member since:
2005-07-06

I hate to break it to you, but that is all that Vista uses UAC for as well.

Part of the problem is things that get installed in to the "All Users" profile.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[4]: What features?
by boldingd on Fri 23rd Oct 2009 21:52 in reply to "RE[3]: What features?"
boldingd Member since:
2009-02-19

Most of the problems with UAC trace back to the fact that they're trying to use a privilege-escalation-based security system with an account that already has administrator rights.

In most Linux systems, you'll log in as an unprivileged user. When you need to do something sensitive, you'll use sudo to run a process as root that will perform the task you want done. Once you run a process ass root... it's root, no more questions asked.

In Vista, you're a privileged user by default. UAC guards certain functions that even the privileged user cannot perform without authorization. UAC will therefore annoy you every time you perform that action, even if you're doing it multiple times from within one process that you've already authorized once.

That's the big problem, IMHO. If Vista had used a Linuxy model, where you weren't privileged by default, you only ever had to escalate a process once, and once you where privileged, the security system wouldn't ask you any more questions, then that approach would've worked fine. The big problem is that you can take pains to run a process as root... and UAC will still whine at you, possibly repeatedly.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[5]: What features?
by CPUGuy on Fri 23rd Oct 2009 22:22 in reply to "RE[4]: What features?"
CPUGuy Member since:
2005-07-06

su != UAC

UAC is more akin to sudo, where you DO need to type sudo before each command. Now you do get a time-span where you don't have to type in your sudo password, but you do still have to type sudo.

Reply Parent Score: 2