Linked by David Adams on Thu 29th Oct 2009 22:44 UTC
General Unix I had the pleasure earlier this month of attending a demo day at HP's Cupertino campus to commemorate the ten year anniversary of the Superdome server, see what's new in the high-end server market and learn about what's going on with HP-UX.
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The IBM option
by kev009 on Fri 30th Oct 2009 00:58 UTC
kev009
Member since:
2006-11-30

I think IBM pretty much cleans shop at megaservers with the ultra speedy POWER6+ p 595. Itanium has yet to pay any dividends for HP. The only reason I'd consider the HP option would be if we had legacy HP-UX apps.

With IBM, you can run any mix of Linux, AIX, and i OS. Linux on POWER is second only to x86, AIX is pretty close to HP-UX but probably better for DB2 and Oracle, while i OS has a large presence in companies that have been around awhile.

POWER7 will be lethal. It will be interesting to see if Oracle/Sun can keep up. Intel seems to not really care about Itanium.

Reply Score: 1

RE: The IBM option
by kaiwai on Fri 30th Oct 2009 02:53 in reply to "The IBM option"
kaiwai Member since:
2005-07-06

I think IBM pretty much cleans shop at megaservers with the ultra speedy POWER6+ p 595. Itanium has yet to pay any dividends for HP. The only reason I'd consider the HP option would be if we had legacy HP-UX apps.

With IBM, you can run any mix of Linux, AIX, and i OS. Linux on POWER is second only to x86, AIX is pretty close to HP-UX but probably better for DB2 and Oracle, while i OS has a large presence in companies that have been around awhile.

POWER7 will be lethal. It will be interesting to see if Oracle/Sun can keep up. Intel seems to not really care about Itanium.


I'm actually surprised that Itanium is still being developed given how far the x86-64 has come - personally, I'd love to see HP port OpenVMS to x86-64 and sell workstations and servers pre-loaded with OpenVMS on it ;) x86-64 with some effort on chipset design can be just as reliable as Itanium but without the massive cost involved and prohibitively high development costs.

Oh well, its only a dream ;)

Reply Parent Score: 2

OpenVMS on X86?
by shotsman on Fri 30th Oct 2009 07:57 in reply to "RE: The IBM option"
shotsman Member since:
2005-07-22

That will be the day Hell Freezes over then?

Seriously, if HP could kill VMS tomorrow then they would. But too many businesses use it. They find it sits there day in, day out and runs and runs and runs.
Last year, I decomissioned a VAX Cluster that had a cluster uptime of 17.6 years.

If by some chance HP were to have a sudden attack of Common Sense then the first complaints would be
Select 1 from below
Where's my MS Messenger?
Where's MS Word
Where's Photoshop

Sort of just like what people say about Linux

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE: The IBM option
by dvzt on Fri 30th Oct 2009 08:57 in reply to "The IBM option"
dvzt Member since:
2008-10-23

POWER7 will be lethal. It will be interesting to see if Oracle/Sun can keep up. Intel seems to not really care about Itanium.


You're kidding, right? Do you realise Sun is now king of TPC-C nenchmark? And also comes better with price/performance ratio.
http://www.tpc.org/tpcc/results/tpcc_perf_results.asp

Also the Exadata V2 database machine is something that will IBM see hard to match.

I don't think people really care about overpriced IBM gear anymore.

Reply Parent Score: 0

RE[2]: The IBM option
by kaiwai on Fri 30th Oct 2009 09:11 in reply to "RE: The IBM option"
kaiwai Member since:
2005-07-06

You're kidding, right? Do you realise Sun is now king of TPC-C nenchmark? And also comes better with price/performance ratio.
http://www.tpc.org/tpcc/results/tpcc_perf_results.asp

Also the Exadata V2 database machine is something that will IBM see hard to match.

I don't think people really care about overpriced IBM gear anymore.


What I find funny is Microsoft isn't to be found on that list - what happened? ;)

The only people who care about IBM are those who purchase Microsoft products and think they perform peachy in the enterprise; you know the sort, when they ring up and want a mail server - they'll ask for an Exchange server - asking for products by brand because that is all they know, the brand.

Oracle has improved though, I remember 3 years ago it was a horrible piece of crap that made any Sun hardware appear like it was a slug; Sybase had no problems pumping out the numbers on Solaris on both SPARC and x86-64 machines.

Edited 2009-10-30 09:13 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: The IBM option
by joshuah on Fri 30th Oct 2009 10:55 in reply to "RE: The IBM option"
joshuah Member since:
2007-06-01

Do you actually know the price of exadata? Do you really know what you are getting, when you buy Exadata? Or are you just trolling?
I know what you get when you buy exadata. You buy a bunch off x86 servers with SATA drives for a LOT of money, and you are stuck with that peace of gear, that can't run anything else then Oracle SW. And trust me Oracle RAC ain't cheap and Oracle RAC ain't what they advertise it to be. And you tell me IBM HW is overpriced?! On which you can get support for Linux/AIX...and you actually have a choice what to use, and no one is forcing you to use AIX?!


EDIT: dvzt, are you a manager or somthing? You sound like one, they love the marketing slides and the fancy charts. And most of the times they don't have a clue on the matter at hand.

Edited 2009-10-30 11:09 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: The IBM option
by NorthWay on Fri 30th Oct 2009 23:19 in reply to "RE: The IBM option"
NorthWay Member since:
2007-02-22

I have seen the new TCP score from Oracle. Congratulations to them for topping the chart.

One funky thing though - that is the only cluster solution you see in the list. You can't even get Oracle people to recommend using RAC over a big multi-CPU machine so long as someone pays for the hw. Administration and support is a day and night difference. No admin wants to run RAC if they can avoid.
And have you looked at the percentage licenses are of the total cost? No wonder they want to sell you that setup.


You might also guess that there might be updates possible to the IBM setup.
Which is all so-so interesting of course.
What IBM _is_ doing is more interesting. Power7 will come some time next year and will probably come in a 256-way p595. You can take a guess at the performance that will have (Cost? Yes. Lots of it I expect.)
They also have their own cluster solution with DB2 PureScale. I expect you can chain p595s into that cluster till the cows come home. There will be very interesting times ahead indeed, and I'm not at all certain Oracle will be able to scale up if they want to stay in the numbers game.

Personal opinion: 7.7m was by far not enough to make an impact. IBM has publicly talked about their Power7 and I think that will have the "PS2 effect" in the market; that it will stop many that might be seriously interest in the Sun RAC setup to wait-and-see (if they have the time) and compare it to a similar Power7 setup.

(For the record: I both use and like AIX.)

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE: The IBM option
by nadiasvertex on Sun 1st Nov 2009 19:46 in reply to "The IBM option"
nadiasvertex Member since:
2006-07-11

How has Itanium not paid dividends? It hasn't taken over the world like it was hoped, but it is ubiquitous across it's Enterprise server line, and it runs Windows, Linux, HP-UX, OpenVMS, and Non-Stop, the latter two of which are used in high-profit sales for mission-critical apps.

Especially the new Tukwila-class chips should be sweet.

Reply Parent Score: 1