Linked by Thom Holwerda on Mon 2nd Nov 2009 23:59 UTC
Windows Windows 7 has been out and about for little over a week now, and as it turns out, Microsoft's new baby is doing relatively well. That is, according to the figures by NetApplications: Windows 7 already reached the 3% mark this weekend, and is already closing in on the 4% mark.
Thread beginning with comment 392706
To view parent comment, click here.
To read all comments associated with this story, please click here.
RE[9]: Windows market share
by lemur2 on Wed 4th Nov 2009 00:59 UTC in reply to "RE[8]: Windows market share"
lemur2
Member since:
2007-02-17

Hmmm... It would seem that there exist Windows bashers that beg big government to restrict what Microsoft can ship with Windows, then those same Windows bashers point to the lack of bundled apps as a reason to bash Windows and as a selling point for other OSes. Funny how that works. And if Microsoft were to respond to such criticisms by bundling more stuff, those very same Windows bashers would be among the first folks calling on big government to put a stop to it. And then they'd continue to point to lack of bundled apps as a reason to bash Windows and promote other OSes. Funny how that works.


Here is my actual view on this Molly.

Ubuntu/Kubuntu comes with vastly more and significantly better quality desktop software, it is cheaper and faster to run, running it on as many machines as you want carries no risks with respect to license compliance, it runs on a vastly wider array of existing desktop hardware, it supports a significantly wider array of data formats, it even has more desktop "bling", and if you are prepared to stick to installing software only from open source repositories, it is guaranteed to get no malware.


And further:

http://www.osnews.com/permalink?392415

If proprietary software vendors advocate choice, why not let OEMs and retail stores install Linux, and offer it for sale without penalty in stores side-by-side on the same machines as Windows?

That way typical customers could truly choose.


Only when that applies, that OEMs and retail stores are allowed to install Linux, and offer it for sale without penalty in stores side-by-side on the same machines as Windows, then what Microsoft bundles with Windows is completely a non-issue.

If they bundle more functionality, then their price on the shelf would rise dramtically. If they leave out the functionality (as they currently do), then the observation that "Ubuntu/Kubuntu comes with vastly more and significantly better quality desktop software" would still very much apply.

Bundling is only a problem if people aren't offered a choice other than to take the whole bundle or nothing at all. Bundling is only a problem when a monopoly supplier does it.

Give people a fair choice of available alternatives, at their actual prices, let them see their choices side-by-side in direct value-for-money comparisons, and then let them choose.

That is a free market consumer choice, and nothing else is.

Now why don't you have a go at criticising that actual view, and not one that you made up from somewhere.

Edited 2009-11-04 01:12 UTC

Reply Parent Bookmark Score: 2

RE[10]: Windows market share
by tomcat on Wed 4th Nov 2009 03:30 in reply to "RE[9]: Windows market share"
tomcat Member since:
2006-01-06

Give people a fair choice of available alternatives, at their actual prices, let them see their choices side-by-side in direct value-for-money comparisons, and then let them choose. That is a free market consumer choice, and nothing else


You're confused about who operating system customers are. Let me enlighten you: OEMs are OS customers, not consumers. Consumers buy WHOLE COMPUTERS, not operating systems. OEMs account for 99% of all OS sales/installs, and OEMs are free to sell whatever they like to consumers. They aren't bound by Microsoft in any way. You would think that Linux would be more attractive to OEMs, but they can't seem to sell Linux -- even when it's priced at zero. Sure, blame the OEM, if you like, but don't try to argue that the market isn't free. You just don't like the fact that the market backed a different product.

Reply Parent Bookmark Score: 2

RE[11]: Windows market share
by lemur2 on Wed 4th Nov 2009 04:09 in reply to "RE[10]: Windows market share"
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

"Give people a fair choice of available alternatives, at their actual prices, let them see their choices side-by-side in direct value-for-money comparisons, and then let them choose. That is a free market consumer choice, and nothing else
You're confused about who operating system customers are. Let me enlighten you: OEMs are OS customers, not consumers. Consumers buy WHOLE COMPUTERS, not operating systems. OEMs account for 99% of all OS sales/installs, and OEMs are free to sell whatever they like to consumers. They aren't bound by Microsoft in any way. You would think that Linux would be more attractive to OEMs, but they can't seem to sell Linux -- even when it's priced at zero. Sure, blame the OEM, if you like, but don't try to argue that the market isn't free. You just don't like the fact that the market backed a different product. "

OEMs are indeed customers for Microsoft licensing. OEMs receive a huge "discount" from Microsoft for the price that they pay to Microsoft for each license, provided that they offer Windows exclusively. Retail outlets are subjected to similar deals.

A good example is in the story of netbooks. Initially, these were sold only with Linux (Xandros was a very poor choice of Linux distribution, but it was nevertheless Linux). XP was being withdrawn at the time, and Vista wouldn't run on the machines. Other manufacturers started to build similar machines (but somehow they all had very poor Linux distributions, mostly from Linux vendors who had signed a deal with Microsoft, and all of which were either "locked down" or had only very sparsely populated repositories. Hmmm. Where was an unconstrained, open Debian or Ubuntu model? Why did many have closed-source-driver-only wireless chips?).

Within a few months, once the netbooks had begun to sell in significant numbers, Microsoft brought XP Home out of mothballs. They allowed OEMs to put XP on newer model netbooks (which suddenly had hard drives added to their design in order to accomodate XP) at a bargain basement price provided Linux was not offered on the same model.

In my area, and as far as I know it happened all over the world in a similar fashion, one week you could buy Linux netbooks in retail stores, and the very next weekend you couldn't. Not a one for sale. Hmmmm. Remarkable that all that stock just disappeared overnight, no?

After a while, Microsoft even began to set hardware limits on netbooks. How does Microsoft get to do this?? Microsoft don't make the hardware! They get to do this by saying that they will not give OEMs that "discount" price if their netbooks exceed the stipulated specifications.

Retail stores and OEMs are NOT free to sell whatever they like to consumers. Not if they also want to sell Windows at a competitive price.

This is why you get a few vendors who sell Linux only, and the majority of vendors who sell Windows only.

http://www.zareason.com/shop/home.php
http://www.system76.com/

Zareason and System 76 don't get any "discounted price" for selling Windows licenses, because they sell Ubuntu. Zareason and System76 couldn't sell a Windows machine as an alternative, because its price would be horrendous.

This way, you just don't get any machines with an Ubuntu OS pre-installed in the same brick-and-mortar store sold side-by-side with Windows machines with the exact same hardware.

Consumers don't get to do any such a side-by-side hands on comparison. Consumers don't get any choices offered to them.

Edited 2009-11-04 04:23 UTC

Reply Parent Bookmark Score: 2