Linked by Thom Holwerda on Wed 11th Nov 2009 13:20 UTC, submitted by SReilly
Gnome As most of you will know, the GNOME team is hard at work on GNOME 3.0, the first major overhaul of the platform since 2002. The release of GNOME 3.0 was originally planned for March 2010, but it has now been pushed back for six months to September 2010.
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RE[4]: Comment by lithium
by haakin on Wed 11th Nov 2009 15:08 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Comment by lithium"
haakin
Member since:
2008-12-18

Believe or not, this strategy worked quite well! (for KDE at least)

The rushed release of KDE4.0 attracted quite a number of developers


Maybe from the developer point of view it was a success. But for the point of view of a humble user, it was a complete disaster.

In my case, I've been using KDE since KDE 2. I stoped using KDE six months ago when I started to work with KDE4. Suddenly Xfce or even Gnome were a better choice for me. I don't think that I'll be a KDE user again in the next years.

Anyway I wish that the Gnome 3 release is a huge success.

Javier

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[5]: Comment by lithium
by KugelKurt on Wed 11th Nov 2009 15:40 in reply to "RE[4]: Comment by lithium"
KugelKurt Member since:
2005-07-06

Maybe from the developer point of view it was a success. But for the point of view of a humble user, it was a complete disaster.

Stop writing such bullsh*t. The only distro which went for KDE 4.0 exclusively was Fedora. All other distros either stayed with KDE 3.5 (eg. Debian and PCLinuxOS) or made a KDE 4 version optionally available (eg. Kubuntu, openSUSE).
Don't pretend as users were not warned of KDE 4.0's immaturity: http://en.opensuse.org/Image:OS11.0-inst-6.jpg

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[6]: Comment by lithium
by haakin on Wed 11th Nov 2009 16:06 in reply to "RE[5]: Comment by lithium"
haakin Member since:
2008-12-18

I waited until KDE 4.1 was released before start using KDE 4. According to the press release (http://kde.org/announcements/4.1/):

"July 29, 2008. The KDE Community today released KDE 4.1.0. This release is the second feature release of the KDE 4 series, sporting new applications and newly developed features on top of the Pillars of KDE4. KDE 4.1 is the first KDE4 release to contain the Personal Information Management suite KDE-PIM with its E-Mail client KMail, the planner KOrganizer, Akregator, the RSS feed reader, KNode, the newsgroup reader and many more components integrated into the Kontact shell. Furthermore, the new desktop shell Plasma, introduced in KDE 4.0, has matured to the point where it can replace the KDE 3 shell for most casual users."

But it wasn't ready for users like me. And I'm a regular user, nothing extraordinary. I don't see the need to exaggerate in a Free software press release.

I just hope that the Gnome developer team has learnt one lesson or two and they don't commit the same mistakes.

Edited 2009-11-11 16:09 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[6]: Comment by lithium
by orestes on Wed 11th Nov 2009 17:41 in reply to "RE[5]: Comment by lithium"
orestes Member since:
2005-07-06

Don't pretend that "warning" did a damn thing to deflect the negativity of end users, especially with development on the KDE3 branch effectively dead as soon as 4.0 hit. 4.x is just now starting to hit the level of maturity that should've been delivered in 4.1 and we're still missing major features.

Reply Parent Score: 6

RE[6]: Comment by lithium
by jibadeeha on Wed 11th Nov 2009 17:55 in reply to "RE[5]: Comment by lithium"
jibadeeha Member since:
2009-08-10

"Maybe from the developer point of view it was a success. But for the point of view of a humble user, it was a complete disaster.

Stop writing such bullsh*t. The only distro which went for KDE 4.0 exclusively was Fedora. All other distros either stayed with KDE 3.5 (eg. Debian and PCLinuxOS) or made a KDE 4 version optionally available (eg. Kubuntu, openSUSE).
Don't pretend as users were not warned of KDE 4.0's immaturity: http://en.opensuse.org/Image:OS11.0-inst-6.jpg
"


He never even mentioned distributions and he didn't pretend users were not warned of KDE 4.0's immaturity, so don't attack somebody (e.g. "stop writing such bullsh*t") when you haven't properly read his posting.

Reply Parent Score: 8

v RE[5]: Comment by lithium
by emilsedgh on Wed 11th Nov 2009 16:00 in reply to "RE[4]: Comment by lithium"
RE[6]: Comment by lithium
by asupcb on Wed 11th Nov 2009 17:39 in reply to "RE[5]: Comment by lithium"
asupcb Member since:
2005-11-10

There was only a warning if you followed the devs mailing lists. Where were the warnings in the official press release?

http://www.kde.org/announcements/4.0/

If you read the release it sounds like it is completely ready for all users. KDE 4.0 should have been released as KDE 4 DR1 (Developer Release 1). If KDE 4.0 was intended to only be a developer and advanced user release then why did they release beta-quality software with a stable-quality moniker? Why not just adopt a moniker that properly communicates the intended audience in the name?

Why were further efforts not made to run KDE 4 alongside KDE 3 during the development process? It seems to me that KDE has alienated at least part of their user base due to the way (or the perception that) they tried to force users to upgrade to KDE 4. Is there some technical reason a KDE 3.6 release could not have been made that was designed to run KDE 4 applications and allow both versions to co-exist on the same machine with no conflicts, so that users who wanted to run a completely polished KDE could do so until KDE 4 became a superior environment?

GNOME should have used DR monikers until 2.6, IMO. The GNOME community obviously felt that their previous decision to release beta-quality software with a stable-quality moniker was a mistake that they are now attempting to avoid with the GNOME 3.0 process.

Also why does KDE use a different six month release cycle than GNOME, especially in light of the fact that distros are just backporting features thereby making development more difficult for upstream?

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[5]: Comment by lithium
by molnarcs on Thu 12th Nov 2009 05:08 in reply to "RE[4]: Comment by lithium"
molnarcs Member since:
2005-09-10

But it was a distro disaster, not a KDE disaster. I mean the message was plain and clear and intended for distribution vendors, not end users (most end users get KDE through a distro vendor).

It was the failure of distributions to apply common sense, starting with the early integration of KDE 4.0 in Kubuntu... Sadly, other distributions followed suit... Oh wait, that's not even the case... Major vendors offered both a stable KDE 3.5.x and the new KDE 4.x release, with more or less clear descriptions in the release notes about the potential issues with the new release. But quite a few users just couldn't wait, went ahead (despite warnings from both KDE and their distro vendors), then started to whine about the lack of feature parity with old kde, even though they were warned through multiple channels BEFORE they tried it out...

Reply Parent Score: 3