Linked by Thom Holwerda on Wed 11th Nov 2009 13:20 UTC, submitted by SReilly
Gnome As most of you will know, the GNOME team is hard at work on GNOME 3.0, the first major overhaul of the platform since 2002. The release of GNOME 3.0 was originally planned for March 2010, but it has now been pushed back for six months to September 2010.
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RE[4]: Comment by lithium
by sbergman27 on Wed 11th Nov 2009 15:12 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Comment by lithium"
sbergman27
Member since:
2005-07-24

The rushed release of KDE4.0 attracted quite a number of developers to it by providing a clear look of their new development path,

Something that calling it "KDE 4 Developer Preview: A Clear Look at Our New Development Path" would have done just as well, without being deceptive.

If necessary, aand avoided it to become a vaporware after numerous delays, refreshing the interest on it.

Vaporware? The code was already out there for developers to see, use, and plan for. What they did was to try to trick users and distros into using noxious vapor^W^Walpha code. And that *did* work. Though I would not call it a success. Did I hear someone say that the distros were free to make their own decisions? Well... we saw how that worked out.

Opensource development is all about momentum, if it looses, the development stops and the software never gets released due the lack of stimulus.

Oh, please. FUD much? Was the KDE4 project so close to death that the remaining devs had no choice but to resort to deception in order to resuscitate their withering project?

KDE4.0 provided a base development environment for the developers outside the core of KDE project to port and test their applications, and provided them with something new, albeit bugged, to play.

And a developer preview wouldn't have given them that? KDE 4.0.0 was intended to trick the community into serving the KDE devs' needs by unwittingly testing incomplete, alpha quality code when they wouldn't have had KDE 4.0.0 been labeled honestly.

Edited 2009-11-11 15:15 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[5]: Comment by lithium
by CapEnt on Wed 11th Nov 2009 16:19 in reply to "RE[4]: Comment by lithium"
CapEnt Member since:
2005-12-18

Nay, i don't think that the project managers resorted to deception at all.

KDE has a long history of their "0" releases being rather crappy. Just remember the 3.0 release. The 4.0 project was a huge rewrite, with lots of old things being scrapped, the developers has been clearly overloaded (some people even began to question the usefulness of the new architecture, asking simple to port KDE3 to QT4).

The KDE project ended up with the following rationale: "our current developers cannot extend or test it any further, and people are loosing the interest, we should release". So it got released on a "as is" basis.

And a developer preview wouldn't have given them that?

No, most binary distros avoid packing RCs and developers previews. The KDE folks wanted that developers who does not care that much for KDE project to compile it all by himself (or search for alternative repositories), to have a taste of their new architecture. Most distros out there knew that KDE4.0 has not really for end users, so they packed it as optional.

Reply Parent Score: 7

RE[5]: Comment by lithium
by sbenitezb on Wed 11th Nov 2009 20:01 in reply to "RE[4]: Comment by lithium"
sbenitezb Member since:
2005-07-22

Oh, please. FUD much? Was the KDE4 project so close to death that the remaining devs had no choice but to resort to deception in order to resuscitate their withering project?


It wasn't the best move, but at least it was a move that did something for KDE. Take a look at KDE right now, it's the desktop gnome would like to be. It isn't perfect, but for the majority of users it works, and it's being polished constantly.

KDE is NOT stuck in the past like Gnome with the sorrow Gtk 2 toolkit. Still using libegg? Still using Bonobo? Still using CORBA? Still using that Windows registry ripoff called gconf? No native good mail client (come on, that garbage of outlook copy comes no close to KMail unless you only care about Exchange connectivity), best image viewer is mono based? Still relying in compiz for desktop effects? Any good music player that comes close to Amarok?

And a developer preview wouldn't have given them that? KDE 4.0.0 was intended to trick the community into serving the KDE devs' needs by unwittingly testing incomplete, alpha quality code when they wouldn't have had KDE 4.0.0 been labeled honestly.


So KDE didn't need testing after all? Everybody knows a major point-zero release is a potential source of bugs and new untested stuff. The problem was that distro packagers offered an upgrade to it without reading carefully. And users really wanted to use it even when it was clear it wasn't complete.

Reply Parent Score: 6

RE[6]: Comment by lithium
by WereCatf on Wed 11th Nov 2009 20:16 in reply to "RE[5]: Comment by lithium"
WereCatf Member since:
2006-02-15

KDE is NOT stuck in the past like Gnome with the sorrow Gtk 2 toolkit. Still using libegg? Still using Bonobo? Still using CORBA? Still using that Windows registry ripoff called gconf? No native good mail client (come on, that garbage of outlook copy comes no close to KMail unless you only care about Exchange connectivity), best image viewer is mono based? Still relying in compiz for desktop effects? Any good music player that comes close to Amarok?

Those are all opinions, not facts. I for example very much like Rhythmbox a whole lot better than Amarok. And Evolution I like a lot more than KMail. Besides, Metacity does nowadays do compositing too.

Stop throwing around your opinions as facts.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[6]: Comment by lithium
by abraxas on Mon 16th Nov 2009 19:45 in reply to "RE[5]: Comment by lithium"
abraxas Member since:
2005-07-07

KDE is NOT stuck in the past like Gnome with the sorrow Gtk 2 toolkit


GTK2 may not be the most advanced toolkit but what exactly is so off putting about it? It has been improving with every release.

Still using libegg? Still using Bonobo? Still using CORBA?


Bonobo is CORBA. All of that crap has been in the process of being phased out for a while now anyway. It would be stupid to just pull the rug out from everything that depends on those things.

Still using that Windows registry ripoff called gconf?


What exactly does the registry have in common with gconf other than centralized settings and an editor that resembles regedit to a degree? It certainly doesn't suffer from any issues that the registry suffers from. If you think the two are even remotely similar other than the two things I mentioned then you have very little experience with one or both of them.

No native good mail client (come on, that garbage of outlook copy comes no close to KMail unless you only care about Exchange connectivity),


What? Evolution rocks. It used to be a buggy piece of shit but it's been very stable for at least a few releases now. I'm not sure what KMail could possibly have over Evolution.

best image viewer is mono based?


Eog is the GNOME image viewer, not F-Spot and it is very good at what it does.

Still relying in compiz for desktop effects?


Compiz isn't a part of GNOME. GNOME 3.0 is going to integrate some level of 3D effects but for those of us who like Compiz there is no harm in replacing Metacity with it so I'm not sure where your complaining comes from.

Any good music player that comes close to Amarok?


Personally I find Amarok's interface a disaster. Banshee does everything I need in a music player and more.

Reply Parent Score: 2