Linked by Thom Holwerda on Tue 8th Dec 2009 00:48 UTC, submitted by Yama
We've seen a lot of reports going back and forth about whether or not Linux is doing well in the netbook space. As it turns out, research firm ABI Research as well as Dell say about one third of their machines ship with Linux pre-installed - which is pretty darn impressive.
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RE[2]: Arn't linux netbooks a little cheaper though?
by WereCatf on Tue 8th Dec 2009 04:30
in reply to "RE: Arn't linux netbooks a little cheaper though?"
Member since:2006-02-15
If they are geeks, why on earth would they want to: regress their new Linux netbook machines; render them vulnerable to malware; reduce their functionality and criple their performance by installing Windows?
Don't be so quick to bash Windows. It's not as bad as you'd like people to think it is. For example, my laptop just gained in functionality and performance after I removed Linux and went back to XP.
Now, I like Linux, I'm a stern supporter of F/OSS and I do wish Linux will sooner or later push Windows to the side completely, but that doesn't mean I need to spread FUD or try to derail discussions just to try and make Linux look better.
RE[3]: Arn't linux netbooks a little cheaper though?
by lemur2 on Tue 8th Dec 2009 04:40
in reply to "RE[2]: Arn't linux netbooks a little cheaper though?"
Member since:2007-02-17
If they are geeks, why on earth would they want to: regress their new Linux netbook machines; render them vulnerable to malware; reduce their functionality and criple their performance by installing Windows? Don't be so quick to bash Windows. It's not as bad as you'd like people to think it is. For example, my laptop just gained in functionality and performance after I removed Linux and went back to XP. Now, I like Linux, I'm a stern supporter of F/OSS and I do wish Linux will sooner or later push Windows to the side completely, but that doesn't mean I need to spread FUD or try to derail discussions just to try and make Linux look better.
Serious question here ... how on earth would a netbook (not a laptop, we were talking about netbooks) gain by installing Windows on it?
It would gain by becoming susceptible to malware? I can't see that as a gain. It would gain by having notepad, calc, wordpad and paint applets? On what planet? It would gain performance? Hardly, especially as it would now require on-access antivirus scans.
AFAIK, suspend works properly on netbooks. Laptops are a different matter, as some manufacturers seem to have gone out of their way to tie some machines to a tailored Windows, but netbooks?
Seriously, how would anyone gain anything at all (other than a bill) by removing a full Linux (not an OEM-crippled version) and installing Windows on a netbook?
Edited 2009-12-08 04:42 UTC
RE[2]: Arn't linux netbooks a little cheaper though?
by nt_jerkface on Tue 8th Dec 2009 05:05
in reply to "RE: Arn't linux netbooks a little cheaper though?"
Member since:2009-08-26
If they are geeks, why on earth would they want to: regress their new Linux netbook machines; render them vulnerable to malware; reduce their functionality and criple their performance by installing Windows?
The geeks I know are capable of not getting malware.
If someone gave me a netbook I would put Windows or OSX on it just to have itunes and not have to deal with Flash/codecs on Linux.
It would have to have an ARM cpu for me to consider Linux.
RE[3]: Arn't linux netbooks a little cheaper though?
by lemur2 on Tue 8th Dec 2009 05:14
in reply to "RE[2]: Arn't linux netbooks a little cheaper though?"
Member since:2007-02-17
"If they are geeks, why on earth would they want to: regress their new Linux netbook machines; render them vulnerable to malware; reduce their functionality and criple their performance by installing Windows?
The geeks I know are capable of not getting malware. If someone gave me a netbook I would put Windows or OSX on it just to have itunes and not have to deal with Flash/codecs on Linux. It would have to have an ARM cpu for me to consider Linux. " You don't have to deal with Flash/codecs on Linux. Try Mint or Arch. All solved, out of the box. If you use Chakra (Arch with KDEmod, and easy-to-install LiveCD which can be made to LiveUSB), it comes with Amarok out of the box, which will support your ipod.
Flash and codecs are more of a problem for Windows. Windows doesn't come with a flash plugin, and it does not support quite a few codecs such as vorbis, theora (and flac?) nor does it have out-of-the-box support for mov or aac.
Come to think of it, Windows doesn't have out-of-the-box support for itunes or ipods, either.
Edited 2009-12-08 05:26 UTC
RE[3]: Arn't linux netbooks a little cheaper though?
by aitvo on Tue 8th Dec 2009 23:56
in reply to "RE[2]: Arn't linux netbooks a little cheaper though?"
Member since:2006-09-03
Flash works quite well on Linux once you get past the driver problems common recently with Xorg and the kernel (especially with Intel).
It's no more difficult to double click a deb from adobe.com than it is to run the MSI installer from the same location.
I can play Hulu full screen, use Hulu desktop, and Boxee. I can also watch most videos online in full screen.
All on an Asus 1000HE w/ Atom processor and I945 in my preferred Linux distribution.
I understand and can relate to issues in Linux distributions that can make people crazy, but lets not forget that you have similar issues no matter what you run on your PC.
RE[2]: Arn't linux netbooks a little cheaper though?
by syiwabhairawa on Tue 8th Dec 2009 05:10
in reply to "RE: Arn't linux netbooks a little cheaper though?"
Member since:2008-11-01
Check this : http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/showthread.php?t=2497685
Many of us Linux users who were interested with Prolink Glee TA-009 which was sold with no OS at S$399, suffering because of its onboard wifi RTL8187B, which works normally in Windows.
Currently I need to resort to the pirated Win XP to make it workable.
RE[3]: Arn't linux netbooks a little cheaper though?
by lemur2 on Tue 8th Dec 2009 05:25
in reply to "RE[2]: Arn't linux netbooks a little cheaper though?"
Member since:2007-02-17
Check this : http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/showthread.php?t=2497685 Many of us Linux users who were interested with Prolink Glee TA-009 which was sold with no OS at S$399, suffering because of its onboard wifi RTL8187B, which works normally in Windows. Currently I need to resort to the pirated Win XP to make it workable.
http://art.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=8328849
Thread stops at Ubuntu 9.04. The last post is a confused reader ... wlan0 and wlan1 are his wireless card.
Should work great, out of the box, for Ubuntu 9.10.
RE[2]: Arn't linux netbooks a little cheaper though?
by Ludicrous on Tue 8th Dec 2009 07:51
in reply to "RE: Arn't linux netbooks a little cheaper though?"
Member since:2009-08-19
If they are geeks, why on earth would they want to: regress their new Linux netbook machines; render them vulnerable to malware; reduce their functionality and criple their performance by installing Windows?
Since I'm a UNIX-like OS user, I'll just take a wild guess as to why people might want to install something other than Linux.
Choice.
Not all people like the UNIX way of doing things.
Not all people want to deal with the upgrade treadmill of Linux distributions. By this, I mean something in the likes of "Hey, I want to install the latest version of _____. What? The distribution doesn't package this? I need to install a different distribution and/or version? Gosh, I'd rather just install service packs instead of having to install a new version of a distribution. It is possible to build from source, but then the package manager of the distribution will not automatically upgrade it (unless using source-based distributions). Compiling on a netbook is slow. Creating a cross-compiling setup is more trouble than it's worth.
Some people like using the software they are used to. Evident from this thread, is the desire of people to use iTunes on their netbooks. As great as Amarok is as a piece of software, it isn't exactly iTunes. Furthermore, I'm assuming iPods aren't supported (by the manufacturer) unless managed with iTunes.
It's great to teach users that there is a Free (both Libre and beer) software, but belittling a user's choice of OS is probably not in the best interest of all parties involved.
RE[2]: Arn't linux netbooks a little cheaper though?
by jokkel on Tue 8th Dec 2009 11:02
in reply to "RE: Arn't linux netbooks a little cheaper though?"
Member since:2008-07-07
Hello little FOSS Troll. Since you don't have any experience of your own, I will tell you my story.
I bought an Asus EeePC 901 about a year ago. I kept the installed Windows XP and dual booted Linux. Over the course of this year I tried the following distributions, some in several versions, on it: eeebuntu (renamed to easy peasy later), Ubuntu Eee, Crunchbang, and Ubuntu proper. The hardware support improved and is now stable and reliable enough.
But XP excels in all the points that matter to me most in a netbook:
- Boots faster
- wakes faster from sleep
- connects to wifi faster
- Firefox is much faster
- turning wifi and bluetooth on and off works without crashing the OS
- no need to install a new OS to get better hardware support every few months
- screen brightness is not changed randomly
- webcam and microphone works reliably
RE[3]: Arn't linux netbooks a little cheaper though?
by lemur2 on Tue 8th Dec 2009 11:58
in reply to "RE[2]: Arn't linux netbooks a little cheaper though?"
Member since:2007-02-17
Hello little FOSS Troll. Since you don't have any experience of your own, I will tell you my story.
I bought an Asus EeePC 901 about a year ago. I kept the installed Windows XP and dual booted Linux. Over the course of this year I tried the following distributions, some in several versions, on it: eeebuntu (renamed to easy peasy later), Ubuntu Eee, Crunchbang, and Ubuntu proper. The hardware support improved and is now stable and reliable enough.
But XP excels in all the points that matter to me most in a netbook:
- Boots faster
- wakes faster from sleep
- connects to wifi faster
- Firefox is much faster
- turning wifi and bluetooth on and off works without crashing the OS
- no need to install a new OS to get better hardware support every few months
- screen brightness is not changed randomly
- webcam and microphone works reliably
I bought an Asus EeePC 901 about a year ago. I kept the installed Windows XP and dual booted Linux. Over the course of this year I tried the following distributions, some in several versions, on it: eeebuntu (renamed to easy peasy later), Ubuntu Eee, Crunchbang, and Ubuntu proper. The hardware support improved and is now stable and reliable enough.
But XP excels in all the points that matter to me most in a netbook:
- Boots faster
- wakes faster from sleep
- connects to wifi faster
- Firefox is much faster
- turning wifi and bluetooth on and off works without crashing the OS
- no need to install a new OS to get better hardware support every few months
- screen brightness is not changed randomly
- webcam and microphone works reliably
I have installed Kubuntu 9.10 Linux dual-boot with Windows XP on an EEEPC 1000H and an MSI Wind U100, and as the lone OS on a Kogan Agora Pro netbook.
Kubuntu Linux performs about the same on all three netbook machines. On the two machine which dual-boot Windows XP home, Kubuntu Linux 9.10 (with KDE 4.3 desktop)
- boots faster (a lot faster than XP)
- runs faster,
- is more stable,
- works perfectly with wifi (Kubuntu bluetooth leaves a little to be desired however, as bluetooth audio is only available in GNOME)
- Firefox 3.5 runs identically as on Windows
- screen brightness is not changed randomly
- webcam and microphone works reliably
- works flawlessly with my wifi network, NAS device and aging HP printers and scanner
Oh, and unlike Windows XP Home, samba can join a Windows domain.
However, there is more: apart from the basic desktop software, I have included in my KDE 4.3 desktop installation, at absolutely no extra expense:
- OpenOffice 3.1 full Office suite
- Kontact PIM including KMail
- Amarok music collection manager
- VLC and SMPlayer video players
- Krita and GIMP raster graphics editors
- Inkscape and Karbon vector graphics editors
- Kopete IM and Quassel IRC
- Quanta Plus web development environment
- Kate programmers editor, and Kwrite plain text editor
- digikam camera/photo management software
- skanlite scanner
- Dia diagram editor
- Krusader, PeaZip and Ark file management utilities
- Okular document (including PDF) viewer
- KTorrent (for obtaining Linux .iso files)
- Arora and Firefox web browsers
- Speedcrunch calculator
- a collection of about 30 games for amusement
Stomps all over XP Home with notepad, calc, Wordpad and paint.
As I said, a truly excellent value proposition for ordinary people working on a netbook.
Edited 2009-12-08 12:11 UTC
RE[3]: Arn't linux netbooks a little cheaper though?
by aitvo on Tue 8th Dec 2009 13:40
in reply to "RE[2]: Arn't linux netbooks a little cheaper though?"
Member since:2006-09-03
RE[3]: Arn't linux netbooks a little cheaper though?
by jokkel on Tue 8th Dec 2009 22:08
in reply to "RE[2]: Arn't linux netbooks a little cheaper though?"
Member since:2008-07-07
RE[3]: Arn't linux netbooks a little cheaper though?
by cerbie on Tue 8th Dec 2009 22:47
in reply to "RE[2]: Arn't linux netbooks a little cheaper though?"
Member since:2006-01-02
RE[2]: Arn't linux netbooks a little cheaper though?
by Punktyras on Tue 8th Dec 2009 13:52
in reply to "RE: Arn't linux netbooks a little cheaper though?"
Member since:2006-01-07
RE[2]: Arn't linux netbooks a little cheaper though?
by Anon on Wed 9th Dec 2009 09:45
in reply to "RE: Arn't linux netbooks a little cheaper though?"
Member since:2006-01-02
Because Windows XP makes a great little O/S to run on a netbook....
Don't run as Admin, turn the FW, don't use IE. Done. Safe from Malware and with the benefit of having access to an absolute plethora of Win32 apps you can stuff around with on the bus. Beats playing with a Xterm session, or being forced to simply 'surf the internet' because lets face it, other than that, there's not a great ecosystem of DECENT applications under Linux.
RE[3]: Arn't linux netbooks a little cheaper though?
by lemur2 on Wed 9th Dec 2009 11:05
in reply to "RE[2]: Arn't linux netbooks a little cheaper though?"
Member since:2007-02-17
Because Windows XP makes a great little O/S to run on a netbook....
Don't run as Admin, turn the FW, don't use IE. Done. Safe from Malware and with the benefit of having access to an absolute plethora of Win32 apps you can stuff around with on the bus. Beats playing with a Xterm session, or being forced to simply 'surf the internet' because lets face it, other than that, there's not a great ecosystem of DECENT applications under Linux.
Don't run as Admin, turn the FW, don't use IE. Done. Safe from Malware and with the benefit of having access to an absolute plethora of Win32 apps you can stuff around with on the bus. Beats playing with a Xterm session, or being forced to simply 'surf the internet' because lets face it, other than that, there's not a great ecosystem of DECENT applications under Linux.
Because Windows XP makes a great little O/S to run on a netbook....
Don't run as Admin, turn the FW, don't use IE. Done. Safe from Malware and with the benefit of having access to an absolute plethora of Win32 apps you can stuff around with on the bus. Beats playing with a Xterm session, or being forced to simply 'surf the internet' because lets face it, other than that, there's not a great ecosystem of DECENT applications under Linux.
Don't run as Admin, turn the FW, don't use IE. Done. Safe from Malware and with the benefit of having access to an absolute plethora of Win32 apps you can stuff around with on the bus. Beats playing with a Xterm session, or being forced to simply 'surf the internet' because lets face it, other than that, there's not a great ecosystem of DECENT applications under Linux.
... an oft-repeated but never-supported claim.
Some application "features" pages for your enjoyment:
http://why.openoffice.org/
http://userbase.kde.org/Applications/Desktop
http://userbase.kde.org/Applications/Office
http://userbase.kde.org/Applications/Graphics
http://www.koffice.org/krita/
http://userbase.kde.org/Digikam
http://www.digikam.org/drupal/about?q=about/overview
http://www.digikam.org/drupal/about?q=about/features
http://amarok.kde.org/de/node/214
http://userbase.kde.org/Applications/Multimedia
http://userbase.kde.org/Applications/Internet
http://www.videolan.org/vlc/features.html
http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/features/
Some fun for you:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3ID2CbtnKk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76twSw5oNss
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJnZ49ekdBQ&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOI0DmGppLw&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PamMOKxcYU0&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQHG_30PeX4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqWd4fNRy8Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmMdm9liMn4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSwX7WMYCH4&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gvqj4QA9AHs&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rwsqKLEU6c&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5h7wtkg4Bc
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If they are geeks, why on earth would they want to: regress their new Linux netbook machines; render them vulnerable to malware; reduce their functionality and criple their performance by installing Windows?