Linked by Thom Holwerda on Tue 8th Dec 2009 23:57 UTC
Hardware, Embedded Systems On a number of occasions, Apple has stated that it cannot design a laptop at around 400-500 USD that isn't total crap. This seems like a reasonable point to make - but why, then, is Dell - of all companies - seemingly able to do so? Dell just launched the Dell Vostro V13 (official press release), and it looks pretty good.
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RE[3]: Comment by Laurence
by foljs on Wed 9th Dec 2009 11:26 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by Laurence"
foljs
Member since:
2006-01-09

You pay a premium for Apple hardware because you pay into their brand. That's a fact.
You might personally buy the hardware for the OS, but the fact still remains that the hardware is priced above PC hardware of the same spec because it's Apple branded.


"That's a fact", how? It has been actually shown to be false many times.

Apple makes mostly high-end machines --in that market segment their prices are competitive and sometimes cheaper that other brands.

Also, keep in the mind that "specs" are not just cpu, hd, video card, number ports and the like. If you want to compare a computer to another you also have some other specs that contribute to the price: money spent on case design and ergonomics, finish, cost of materials and machining, etc. While not necessary for raw computing, those factors are neither trivial to the price, non undesirable for the consumer --and they help make everyday use better if well implemented.

For example:

Is a laptop with an extruding camera to cost the same as an Apple one with a camera hidden in the body?

Does paying a high-end industrial designer for designing the aethetics and the ergonomics of the case cost more?

Does a unibody construction cost more than the usual multi-part style?

Does an embedded DVD drive cost more than a usual slide out one?

Does making the product x inches thinner or y kg lighter cost more?

Does a multi-touch glass trackpad cost more than the usual mediocre one?

Does even simply taking the man-time of arranging the inner wiring and cards neatly (as in any Mac Pro) instead of making a mess of it costs more?

Does using LED backlighting of specific luminance cost more comparable to the less well made by a competitor?

etc etc...

Specs in relation to cost are not only numeric measurements of cpu speed, front size bus speed, GB ram et al...

Reply Parent Score: -1

RE[4]: Comment by Laurence
by JAlexoid on Wed 9th Dec 2009 12:32 in reply to "RE[3]: Comment by Laurence"
JAlexoid Member since:
2009-05-19

Apple makes mostly high-end machines --in that market segment their prices are competitive and sometimes cheaper that other brands.


When Apple releases new HW, the machines are usually equally priced to same spec'ed machines from other companies. However, they quickly start to be more expensive, until new HW is released.


Also, keep in the mind that "specs" are not just cpu, hd, video card, number ports and the like. If you want to compare a computer to another you also have some other specs that contribute to the price: money spent on case design and ergonomics, finish, cost of materials and machining, etc. While not necessary for raw computing, those factors are neither trivial to the price, non undesirable for the consumer --and they help make everyday use better if well implemented.


How much "they" spend on ergonomics, design and production is irrelevant. They can have Armani design and virgins make a laptop, that will be total crap but the design and production will cost millions.
What counts, is the end product.
I absolutely hate MacBooks' keyboards, for example. And that is the ONLY, rational, reason why I don't want to buy one.


For example:

Good, I love example game ;)

Is a laptop with an extruding camera to cost the same as an Apple one with a camera hidden in the body?

My 300 Eur netbook, has the camera hidden! What are you talking about?!?!?!?!

Does paying a high-end industrial designer for designing the aethetics and the ergonomics of the case cost more?

Yes. I bet, Dell also has high-end industrial designers. But less fanbois and apologists.

Does a unibody construction cost more than the usual multi-part style?

Is Apple the only one that produces unibody notebooks?

Does an embedded DVD drive cost more than a usual slide out one?

That is just a fasion statement, without any real value. Taking into account the fact, that most people don't even use their DVD drives.

Does making the product x inches thinner or y kg lighter cost more?

You are getting into technical specs here. Same can be to Dell's HW.

Does a multi-touch glass trackpad cost more than the usual mediocre one?

Definitely, yes. And this point is probably the one that makes the most sense.

Does even simply taking the man-time of arranging the inner wiring and cards neatly (as in any Mac Pro) instead of making a mess of it costs more?

Technically, a pre-built computer should not be opened. So only real geeks and Mac fans care and brag about that point. From engineering point of view, a Whole Sort of General Mish Mash can be as effective as "neat", but costs less to implement.

Does using LED backlighting of specific luminance cost more comparable to the less well made by a competitor?

"Well made" is not really an objective comparison method.

The main reason I don't like Apple, is that they are total control freaks. Though I do understand why. And I even recommend buying a genuine Apple laptop to my non technical friends.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[4]: Comment by Laurence
by Laurence on Wed 9th Dec 2009 12:38 in reply to "RE[3]: Comment by Laurence"
Laurence Member since:
2007-03-26


Laurence said:
-----
"You pay a premium for Apple hardware because you pay into their brand. That's a fact.
You might personally buy the hardware for the OS, but the fact still remains that the hardware is priced above PC hardware of the same spec because it's Apple branded."

-----

"That's a fact", how? It has been actually shown to be false many times.

So you believe that Apple isn't a brand name?
Or you believe that Apples hardware doesn't have a mark up?




Also, keep in the mind that "specs" are not just cpu, hd, video card, number ports and the like. If you want to compare a computer to another you also have some other specs that contribute to the price: money spent on case design and ergonomics, finish, cost of materials and machining, etc. While not necessary for raw computing, those factors are neither trivial to the price, non undesirable for the consumer --and they help make everyday use better if well implemented.

For example:

Is a laptop with an extruding camera to cost the same as an Apple one with a camera hidden in the body?
Does paying a high-end industrial designer for designing the aethetics and the ergonomics of the case cost more?
Does a unibody construction cost more than the usual multi-part style?
Does an embedded DVD drive cost more than a usual slide out one?
Does making the product x inches thinner or y kg lighter cost more?
Does a multi-touch glass trackpad cost more than the usual mediocre one?
Does even simply taking the man-time of arranging the inner wiring and cards neatly (as in any Mac Pro) instead of making a mess of it costs more?
Does using LED backlighting of specific luminance cost more comparable to the less well made by a competitor?
etc etc...

That's all very good and well, but aside the touch pad, none of that affects the performance of the machine.
Again, if that's what people want to spend their money on, then so be it. I have no problem with this and nor should I.
However most people choose their laptop based on speed and what OS is running, not because the wires have been hand-placed or the case was designed by professional artists.

So forgive me when I neglect to include aesthetics when costing up computer specs.

Reply Parent Score: 2