Linked by Thom Holwerda on Thu 10th Dec 2009 19:52 UTC
Graphics, User Interfaces For as long as I can remember, I've been having issues with scrolling in Windows and its applications. When scrolling via dragging the scroll blob, it seemed as if Windows had the annoying habit of randomly resetting your scroll blob to its starting position, which irritated me to no end. It took me a while to figure out, but I finally know when this behaviour occurs - now I just need to know: why?!
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Comment by Darak
by Darak on Thu 10th Dec 2009 20:20 UTC
Darak
Member since:
2009-10-16

The only correct behaviour when clicking inside the scrollbar is "jump to here". The incorrect, inconsistent, annoying and obnoxious outcome is "move one set arbitrary distance down/up".

Both solutions are wrong. "Jump to here"? What part of the window should go to the point clicked? The top? The bottom? An arbitrary point inside? Not only that, but accurately predicting the actual meaning of a relative point in a document inside the scrollbar is pretty hard, meaning that you'll likely miss your attempt by some ammount, and once you clicked, there is no way to retry the gesture since the displaced thumb is now blocking access to the bar behind. If you want to scroll to an arbitrary point, it is better to drag the scrollbar, and you'll have the benefit of previewing and adjusting the position as you do it.

The correct solution is to give the gesture an useful meaning: just scroll a full page of text. This is the solution used by Windows and there is absolutely zero problems with it. It is a bit invisible, though, and most people don't know that you can click and hold to scroll continuously until the point clicked, in a way similar to your proposal.

Anyway, you're 100% correct about the thumb reset bug and I'd love to hear an explanation from someone in the known.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Comment by Darak
by Thom_Holwerda on Thu 10th Dec 2009 20:24 in reply to "Comment by Darak"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

I'm not going to argue this one, as it was clearly tongue-in-cheek and I know I'm pretty much alone on it anyway - but the problem I have with the scroll-one-page solution is that you end up with a proportional UI element (the blob) inside a non-proportional element (the bar). With jump-to-here, both are proportional, which makes more sense to me (and only me, probably).

By extension, you could also make the blob non-proportional, and have it have a fixed size, but this takes valuable information away.

Edited 2009-12-10 20:24 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[2]: Comment by Darak
by big_gie on Thu 10th Dec 2009 20:41 in reply to "RE: Comment by Darak"
big_gie Member since:
2006-01-04

the problem I have with the scroll-one-page solution is that you end up with a proportional UI element (the blob) inside a non-proportional element (the bar). With jump-to-here, both are proportional, which makes more sense to me (and only me, probably).

I always questioned myself as why the default behaviour was a single "page up/down" instead of the "jump here" I think would be more intuitive. I guess I'm not alone anymore! ;)

On another note, why don't you have your window maximized (at least vertically)? You probably wouldn't have the problem of the top/bottom buffers to small if the window was maximized. Was it only to show the behaviour?
I've never understood why people don't use 100% of their screen estate... you paid for that big screen, use it! Or even worse, on smaller screen (eg. netbook) the space is rare so I want my windows to be not only maximized, but fullscreen. But then even on my 22 inches monitor, everything's maximized, even fullscreen'ed.
This is the reason I don't feel at home on Mac: You loose so much screen estate...

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[2]: Comment by Darak
by malxau on Thu 10th Dec 2009 23:55 in reply to "RE: Comment by Darak"
malxau Member since:
2005-12-04

By extension, you could also make the blob non-proportional, and have it have a fixed size, but this takes valuable information away.


I believe this is why Windows acts this way. In Windows 3.x and earlier, scrollbars were non-proportional, and it made sense. With proportional scrollbars, previous behavior was carried forward. I don't know if this will be revisted someday, but it probably should be.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[2]: Comment by Darak
by bert64 on Fri 11th Dec 2009 13:55 in reply to "RE: Comment by Darak"
bert64 Member since:
2007-04-23

[q]I'm not going to argue this one, as it was clearly tongue-in-cheek and I know I'm pretty much alone on it anyway - but the problem I have with the scroll-one-page solution is that you end up with a proportional UI element (the blob) inside a non-proportional element (the bar). With jump-to-here, both are proportional, which makes more sense to me (and only me, probably)./q]

No, this makes a lot of sense to me as well... I can't remember where i first encountered this behaviour but it always seemed more logical to me... If you want to move up or down by fixed increments you have the up/down buttons, the cursor keys and the pageup/pagedown keys.

Ofcourse, best way would be to have this option configurable, so those of us who like it can turn it on.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: Comment by Darak
by shawnjgoff on Fri 11th Dec 2009 20:06 in reply to "RE: Comment by Darak"
shawnjgoff Member since:
2008-05-02

The bar is proportional: when you click in it, the "blob" moves a distance in proportion to the size of the document.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[2]: Comment by Darak
by MamiyaOtaru on Sat 12th Dec 2009 09:27 in reply to "RE: Comment by Darak"
MamiyaOtaru Member since:
2005-11-11

click and don't release. It will page up/down until it gets where your cursor is and will then stop

Reply Parent Score: 2