Linked by Thom Holwerda on Wed 6th Jan 2010 20:01 UTC
Internet Explorer It would appear that Microsoft will finally take standards compliance in the browser world seriously, after dragging its feet for years. Back in November 2009, the Redmond giant already revealed that Internet Explorer 9 would come with CSS3 and HTML5 support, and now the cup runneth over, as Microsoft has requested to join the W3C's SVG Working Group.
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RE[6]: Comment by Kroc
by Kroc on Wed 6th Jan 2010 23:24 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Comment by Kroc"
Kroc
Member since:
2005-11-10

I use IE8 on brand new OEM machines I’m setting up for people and 10 seconds to open a tab is not out of the ordinary. It might take you 1 second, but the majority of users don’t get anything like that. The fact is that any other browser is simply faster than IE8 in every department.

As for FF OS X? The trick is to write in FF OS X and fix for Windows, not the other way around. FF/Mac’s rendering is much more accurate (even supporting better ligatures than Webkit).

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[7]: Comment by Kroc
by BluenoseJake on Thu 7th Jan 2010 02:58 in reply to "RE[6]: Comment by Kroc"
BluenoseJake Member since:
2005-08-11

Saying that FF OS X is more accurate than FF on Windows when rendering pages is facetious at best. A page will be most accurately rendered in the browser it was designed in.

All other browsers, even the same browser on different platforms will render differently.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[7]: Comment by Kroc
by nt_jerkface on Thu 7th Jan 2010 02:59 in reply to "RE[6]: Comment by Kroc"
nt_jerkface Member since:
2009-08-26

I use IE8 on brand new OEM machines I’m setting up for people and 10 seconds to open a tab is not out of the ordinary. It might take you 1 second, but the majority of users don’t get anything like that.

I'm on a notebook with a core 2 duo at 2ghz. It's about as typical as you can get for new computers. I just tried opening a tab on an old machine that has Vista and a 1.7ghz celeron and it took 4 seconds. You probably tried opening a tab at startup when the cpu was overloaded by crapware. That's not the fault of IE.


The fact is that any other browser is simply faster than IE8 in every department.

That's not true, IE8 is faster for Flash heavy websites, especially when compared to Firefox. Non-IE browsers are choked much quicker by Flash ads. But that is beside the point since I was taking issue when your claim that it has poor JS performance. IE8 doesn't have poor JS performance, it just scores below the other browsers in synthetic benchmarks. Those benchmarks do not translate into equally distant performance gains when it comes to real world browsing.

I do believe that Chrome is overall faster than IE which is why I use it. But IE8 is not this slow monstrosity that you make it out to be. Most people wouldn't be able to tell the difference between IE8 and FF 3.5 in a blind rendering test. There was a time when FF was clearly faster than IE but those days are over. The bandwidth is the real bottleneck when it comes to browsing.

You seem to have a grudge against IE which keeps you from judging it objectively.


As for FF OS X? The trick is to write in FF OS X and fix for Windows, not the other way around. FF/Mac’s rendering is much more accurate (even supporting better ligatures than Webkit).


You can speak of accuracy and tricks all day if you want but at the end of the day a lot of rendering leeway is left to the browsers which leaves subjective experiences and in my experience Firefox is the absolute worst when it comes to cross platform consistency. Silly me I guess for assuming that a program with the same name and version number that follows "standards" wouldn't require constant checking for platform bugs.

I actually spent more time accounting for FF OSX/Win bugs than IE bugs, but partly because we didn't support IE6. The webkit browsers were the best to work with and the few quirks they had weren't show stopping. My advice is to test in FF OSX last since they are such a small percentage of all visitors. If it was a personal site I wouldn't even bother. Mozilla treats their OSX build like an ugly stepchild and I'm not keen on encouraging its use.

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[8]: Comment by Kroc
by ricegf on Thu 7th Jan 2010 11:09 in reply to "RE[7]: Comment by Kroc"
ricegf Member since:
2007-04-25

Oh, don't be silly. I'm forced to use IE8 on work websites (they check, the scoundrels), and waiting for a freaking tab to open is like waiting for the glaciers to melt. Not at start up, mind you - *normal* operation.

What's worse is that I'm spoiled by Firefox and Chrome (can't decide which to use... I'm not indecisive... well, yes, I am...) to hit control-T and immediately type the new URL. With IE8, in most cases this results in my EXISTING tab going to the new website, then switching leisurely to a new blank tab. Makes me want to throw the Dell D630 laptop across the room every time (not exactly an "ancient computer").

Page rendering time seems lethargic as well, especially next to Chrome, and its lack of customization makes it pale compared to the custom fit that is Firefox.

IE8 is certainly better then IE6 or IE7, but that's a bit like saying the economy is better now than in October. There's a *reason* Microsoft is shedding market share like snake skin despite using their Windows desktop monopoly to push their own browser. It's really just not a very compelling product in a lot of ways, your claim of a "grudge against IE" notwithstanding.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[7]: Comment by Kroc
by andrewg on Thu 7th Jan 2010 03:57 in reply to "RE[6]: Comment by Kroc"
andrewg Member since:
2005-07-06

Are you confusing IE7 with 8? Because 7 was bad but 8 is almost instant. Either that or there is something wrong with the machine or IE install or something. IE8 is actually decent unlike 6 and 7.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[7]: Comment by Kroc
by andrewg on Fri 8th Jan 2010 21:30 in reply to "RE[6]: Comment by Kroc"
andrewg Member since:
2005-07-06

I find the Firefox UI to feel the most sluggish. The order would be Opera, Chrome, IE8, Firefox.

When Firebug was first released it was amazing. But I am finding that IE8 and Opera are perhaps better at Javascript debugging right now.

Reply Parent Score: 2