Linked by Thom Holwerda on Fri 15th Jan 2010 23:06 UTC
Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Xubuntu "The Ubuntu development community announced today the availability of Ubuntu 10.04 alpha 2, a new prerelease of the next major version of the Ubuntu Linux distribution. This alpha is the first Ubuntu release to completely omit HAL, a Linux hardware abstraction layer that is being deprecated in favor of DeviceKit."
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RE[6]: Deprecation
by nt_jerkface on Sun 17th Jan 2010 23:12 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Deprecation"
nt_jerkface
Member since:
2009-08-26


1) Even the Windows gaming market is a pathetic shadow of what was 10 years ago - it's mainly just hand-me-down console ports (with the exception of Valve, Blizzard, and maybe-kinda-sorta id). Linux games have typically been ports of Windows games - with the big commercial titles, at least.


A lot of 3D pc games these days are console ports but there is a booming casual market for games like The Sims, Warcraft and Peggle. Peggle has been ported to just about everything except Linux.

If you look at proprietary games / market share ratio and compare to OSX it is clear that there is something very wrong with Linux. When a single developer supports Linux it becomes a headline.

Just look at the direct2drive Mac section:
http://www.direct2drive.com/buy-mac-download

Not as good as Windows of course but there are a lot of new games to play.

The lack of commercial developer support has more to do with Linux having too many incompatibility issues between distros and software management systems that are designed around open source applications.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[7]: Deprecation
by Zifre on Mon 18th Jan 2010 01:15 in reply to "RE[6]: Deprecation"
Zifre Member since:
2009-10-04

The lack of commercial developer support has more to do with Linux having too many incompatibility issues between distros and software management systems that are designed around open source applications.

This is completely wrong. While Linux has a bigger market share than the iPhone, the average iPhone user is much more willing to pay money for some junk game than the average Linux user. Thus, the iPhone market is bigger.

Games on Linux basically never have to worry about incompatibilities if they do things correctly. All they have to do is statically link and use SDL and OpenGL. A game really shouldn't depend on much more than that. You are correct however that it is hard to develop a commercial desktop app using Gtk+ or Qt. But games shouldn't need to do that.

The fact that there are small indie games such as World of Goo that manage to release Linux ports with relative ease tells me that large companies like EA with 1000x the resources should have no problem with it. It is just a matter of market share. I would love to see more commercial software supporting Linux, but I really don't blame them at all when the market is so small.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[8]: Deprecation
by Slambert666 on Mon 18th Jan 2010 04:42 in reply to "RE[7]: Deprecation"
Slambert666 Member since:
2008-10-30

"The lack of commercial developer support has more to do with Linux having too many incompatibility issues between distros and software management systems that are designed around open source applications.
"

Strike 1: Incompatibilities amongst Linux distros.
Strike 2: Distro specific distribution systems.
Strike 3: Open source since most (game) developers cannot distribute their libraries (since it is not theirs to begin with).

This is completely wrong. While Linux has a bigger market share than the iPhone, the average iPhone user is much more willing to pay money for some junk game than the average Linux user. Thus, the iPhone market is bigger.


Strike 4: Users not willing to pay for software.

Games on Linux basically never have to worry about incompatibilities if they do things correctly. All they have to do is statically link and use SDL and OpenGL. A game really shouldn't depend on much more than that. You are correct however that it is hard to develop a commercial desktop app using Gtk+ or Qt. But games shouldn't need to do that.


Strike 5: Tunnel-vision and sour-graping from Linux developers (apparently your games does not have sound).

Strike 6: Only BSD licensed libs can be static linked without license side-effects. (see strike 3).

The fact that there are small indie games such as World of Goo that manage to release Linux ports with relative ease tells me that large companies like EA with 1000x the resources should have no problem with it.


Strike 7: Linux economy based on support and that is a different business model than most game developers has (except WOW like OPG).

Strike 8: WINE since you will have a much better time as a developer by just testing under wine than developing native apps for Linux.

It is just a matter of market share. I would love to see more commercial software supporting Linux, but I really don't blame them at all when the market is so small.


Strike 9: Not a lot of market-share.

Games development for Linux is an exercise in futility.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[8]: Deprecation
by nt_jerkface on Mon 18th Jan 2010 05:15 in reply to "RE[7]: Deprecation"
nt_jerkface Member since:
2009-08-26

While Linux has a bigger market share than the iPhone, the average iPhone user is much more willing to pay money for some junk game than the average Linux user. Thus, the iPhone market is bigger.

I already pointed out that the iphone has more than junk mini games. Why hasn't the Sims been ported to Linux? Or Braid? Or World of Warcraft?


Games on Linux basically never have to worry about incompatibilities if they do things correctly. All they have to do is statically link and use SDL and OpenGL. A game really shouldn't depend on much more than that.

The incompatibilities exist between distros and versions of those distros. Developers can't even expect SDL to remain stable in Ubuntu for a single year.

I tried playing my favourite game, Urban Terror, on my new Karmic Koala install. At first it actually worked good but then suddenly the performance went way down and I had problems with the audio. I couldn't even quit the game, had to kill it.

Checking the console output it seems there was a problem with the SDL sound libraries. I looked into synaptic and found that libsdl1.2debian-alsa was installed while libsdl1.2debian-pulseaudio was NOT installed. Since ubuntu uses PulseAudio I installed this library instead and now it seems to be working fine.

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1309656&highlight=urban+te...


You are correct however that it is hard to develop a commercial desktop app using Gtk+ or Qt. But games shouldn't need to do that.

I'm not sure what you are saying here. Games can be more problematic than business apps due to having to work with sound and video.


The fact that there are small indie games such as World of Goo that manage to release Linux ports with relative ease tells me that large companies like EA with 1000x the resources should have no problem with it.


You're reaching the wrong conclusion. The likely is answer is that the World of Goo devs wanted to support Linux for non-financial reasons and decided to deal with all the problems involved. I could just as easily point the the Braid developer's blog who lost interest in supporting Linux after being disappointed with SDL and running into other issues:
http://braid-game.com/news/?p=364


It is just a matter of market share. I would love to see more commercial software supporting Linux, but I really don't blame them at all when the market is so small.

No the problem is that distro creators are not trying to work with each other or commercial developers. Linux is not a single, stable platform with a software management system that appeals to commercial developers. It's a mess of competing systems that could care less about providing a stable platform for commercial developers.

Linux is a movement dedicated to open source and making the system appealing to companies like EA Games is not even on the list of priorities. Open source developers don't have to deal with all the distro inconsistencies since they can just dump the source and let everyone downstream figure it out.

Linux would have a much better game library if it had something like the app store that worked across distros and could be counted on to work after updates.

Reply Parent Score: 2