Linked by Thom Holwerda on Fri 29th Jan 2010 16:08 UTC
Oracle and SUN "Several of the concerns about Oracle's acquisition of Sun have revolved around how Unix technologies led by Sun would continue under the new ownership. As it turns out, Solaris users might not have much to worry about, as Oracle executives on Wednesday affirmed their commitment to preserving the efforts. In the case of Solaris, Oracle had already been a big supporter of the rival Linux operating system. Oracle has its own Enterprise Linux offering, based on Red Hat Enterprise Linux. For Oracle CEO Larry Ellison, the idea that Linux and Solaris are mutually exclusive is a false choice."
Thread beginning with comment 406685
To read all comments associated with this story, please click here.
Not all *nix is equal...
by spanglywires on Fri 29th Jan 2010 18:43 UTC
spanglywires
Member since:
2006-10-23

Regarding the above..

You guys are dreaming that Linux is ready for the big time. Even IBM who some Linux people see as some kind of saviour is saying that Linux is not Enterprise class and will sell you a POWERwotsit donkey cart in the biggest rack frame they can find.

I use AIX, Solaris and Linux everyday, and Linux does not cut it *yet*. Sun gear and Solaris is truly Enterprise class, you can hotswap memory and cpus in big SPARC systems with NO DOWNTIME, and even the older boxes had hundreds of cpu's when maxed out. Solaris quite simply has a lead over all Unix flavours (especially the laggard that is AIX) when it comes to scalability in numbers, and its got at least a 20 year head start on Linux.


Theres plenty of room for both however!

Now, what I imagine Larry means is Solaris on the big Enterprise stuff for banks, scientific, military etc (ie big markup for those willing to pay for it) with Oracle Grid Databases, while the SMB departmental stuff will be smaller and more flexible using Linux (where cost against Microsoft counts). I'll also bet the lower end stuff will get a tweak and tuned MySQL (again, I use both daily!)

The guy has a knack for wringing cash out all the way, and lets face it, he wouldn't keep what he couldn't use.

Reply Score: 6

mmm... Solaris is *highly* overrated.
by sergio on Fri 29th Jan 2010 23:08 in reply to "Not all *nix is equal..."
sergio Member since:
2005-07-06

Laggard AIX has something truly "enterprise" that trendy Solaris hasn't: good virtualization.

System p (and AIX) have incredible virtualization capabilities. The best UNIX virtualization by far... and AIX's been using the same technology for years, It's a really solid product. SUN changed their virtualization plans every year!

Containers/Zones and LDOMs are good but can't compete with AIX's LPARs (or VMware ESX or even Xen). You have to do black magic to run RHEL or Solaris 8/9 using "Branded Zones"... that's not "high end", that's not "Enterprise"... that's a complete joke.

ZFS and Dtrace are amazing, I love 'em, but They're pretty new technologies! You don't have ZFS in every Solaris box out there! (in fact VxVM and SVM are much more common). AIX have LVM since 1991 or so, and Linux since 1998.

Solaris is really good, but It isn't more "high end" than RHEL, AIX or any other Enterprise *nix. That's a complete marketing bullshit.

Reply Parent Score: 2

Kebabbert Member since:
2007-07-27

"Containers/Zones and LDOMs are good but can't compete with AIX's LPARs (or VMware ESX or even Xen). You have to do black magic to run RHEL or Solaris 8/9 using "Branded Zones"... that's not "high end", that's not "Enterprise"... that's a complete joke."

Branded Zones require Black Magic? Eh? You have never tried zones yourself. It is very easy to set Zones up. And Zones are extremely light weight also, as all Linux kernel calls get remapped to Solaris kernel calls. There is only one kernel active; the Solaris kernel. A Zone typically requires 40MB RAM and 100MB disk space (if you use ZFS). One guy started 1000 zones in 1GB RAM - it was dog slow, but it worked. Try to do that with AIX?

The point is, you just zip an old Solaris v8 server, and then drop that zip file into an Solaris 10 Zone, and now you can get rid of your old server.

You can also use LDOMS, which is Solaris equivalence to LPAR.


"ZFS and Dtrace are amazing, I love 'em, but They're pretty new technologies! You don't have ZFS in every Solaris box out there! (in fact VxVM and SVM are much more common). AIX have LVM since 1991 or so, and Linux since 1998."

LVM can not be compared to ZFS, it is ridiculous. ZFS is the only solution that REALLY protects your data, LVM does not.

IBM has a DTrace copy: ProbeVue. I wonder how good it is? And then IBM wants to have the ZFS copy: BTRFS.




Regarding "Linux is on Top500". Yes, we find Linux on Top500 but Top500 super computers are basically a bunch of PC on a fast network. They are very specialized and do one thing fast: calculate. They use stripped down and modified Linux kernel, not std Linux kernel. The difference between super computers and Big Iron (one big machine with lots of CPUs) are vast, see wikipedia article. Big Iron is hard to do, they are general multi purpose machines with lots of complex stuff. A bunch of PC sending messages and calculating is easy to do - it is almost like SETI Folding works: a bunch of computers do a calculation and sends back the result. It is very different to Big Iron where Solaris scales well - it is the same install CD and the same Solaris kernel on Asus EEE PC up to big iron with 100s of CPUs - that is true Scalability! You dont have to modify anything on Solaris kernel!

Why dont Super Computers use the Solaris kernel which scales much better on Big Iron? Solaris kernel is complex and difficult to modify and strip down, with some weird licensing (commercial stuff is ok?). It is far easier to use a naive kernel as Linux under GPL to modify.

Look at SAP latest benchmarks. Linux on 48 cores only utilize 87% of all cores, whereas Solaris utilize 99% of all cores. That means Linux does not scale on a single machine with many cores.

Reply Parent Score: 6

bert64 Member since:
2007-04-23

System P (and System Z) virtualization is more of a hardware function than part of the OS, sure you can run AIX inside of an LPAR but you can also run Linux.

Solaris zones are not meant to compete with this or with vmware, they are a lighter weight alternative which serve a different purpose. There is nothing stopping you from installing solaris inside of vmware or a similar technology. And on the subject of LPARs, Sun has something similar on their high end offerings anyway, and has for years.

Reply Parent Score: 2

dvzt Member since:
2008-10-23

Laggard AIX has something truly "enterprise" that trendy Solaris hasn't: good virtualization.


I suppose you are talking about capabilities of System p hardware, not AIX. Btw SPARC machines have virtualization capabilities too.

SUN changed their virtualization plans every year!


Citation needed.

Containers/Zones and LDOMs are good but can't compete with AIX's LPARs (or VMware ESX or even Xen).


First of all, you are totally confusing hardware virtualization and OS-virtualization. Technologies you named are different tools for different purposes. Second, with zones you can have hundreds of virtual environments on single server, how many can you have with VMWare, LPARs or Xen? Third, Solaris does run on Xen as dom0 and domU.

You have to do black magic to run RHEL or Solaris 8/9 using "Branded Zones"... that's not "high end", that's not "Enterprise"... that's a complete joke.


That's not a joke, that's how OS-virtualization works.

ZFS and Dtrace are amazing, I love 'em, but They're pretty new technologies! You don't have ZFS in every Solaris box out there! (in fact VxVM and SVM are much more common).


What? Solaris 9 was EOLd long time ago, and there is already eighth update of Solaris 10 (which includes ZFS) available. You expect ZFS to be backported or what?

AIX have LVM since 1991 or so, and Linux since 1998.


What's yor point? Solaris has Disksuite a VxVM for very very long time. (I'm not going to google for exact time.) Btw. Linux's LVM is practically useless.

Solaris is really good, but It isn't more "high end" than RHEL, AIX or any other Enterprise *nix. That's a complete marketing bullshit.


Linux on servers is x86 (== low end) OS, that's all. Term "enterprise Linux" is an oxymoron and is not in the same category as Solaris and AIX.

Reply Parent Score: 3

v RE: Not all *nix is equal...
by turrini on Sat 30th Jan 2010 00:27 in reply to "Not all *nix is equal..."
RE: Not all *nix is equal...
by segedunum on Sun 31st Jan 2010 21:08 in reply to "Not all *nix is equal..."
segedunum Member since:
2005-07-06

You guys are dreaming that Linux is ready for the big time.

Hmmmmm, the last ten years hasn't happened then? ROTFL.

Even IBM who some Linux people see as some kind of saviour is saying that Linux is not Enterprise class and will sell you a POWERwotsit donkey cart in the biggest rack frame they can find.

IBM don't care what is installed on their machines. It's clear that AIX will be phased out eventually for Linux to save on support costs. Unlike Sun, they don't have a religious attachment to their in-house Unix and won't let it destroy them.

I use AIX, Solaris and Linux everyday, and Linux does not cut it *yet*. Sun gear and Solaris is truly Enterprise class....

That must be why Sun headed towards going bust, got bought out by Oracle and will definitely disappear if they follow the same strategy - because it has already failed.

Solaris quite simply has a lead over all Unix flavours (especially the laggard that is AIX) when it comes to scalability in numbers, and its got at least a 20 year head start on Linux.

Hmmmm, that must be why Sun has had its lunch eaten for the past ten years, IBM has made a ton of cash and Linux has flourished at Sun's expense.

Now, what I imagine Larry means is Solaris on the big Enterprise stuff for banks, scientific, military etc

Errrrr, Linux is already being used there sweetheart - and it's the very reason why Sun has headed headlong towards bankruptcy.

Still, a pig headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through!

Reply Parent Score: 3