Linked by Thom Holwerda on Mon 1st Feb 2010 16:25 UTC
General Development While the iPad can certainly be debated as a product, people on the internet are discussing not the product, but the shift devices like the iPhone and iPad represent: a shift away from a computer being accessible to it being something closed and impenetrable. Is this a future we want for ourselves?
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Comment by Laurence
by Laurence on Mon 1st Feb 2010 16:42 UTC
Laurence
Member since:
2007-03-26

Contrary to popular belief - there are competing products to many (if not all) of Apples products.

So if you don't like Apple's closed nature then the answer is simple: support someone else.

Reply Score: 14

RE: Comment by Laurence
by jweinraub on Mon 1st Feb 2010 16:54 in reply to "Comment by Laurence"
jweinraub Member since:
2009-06-22

The problem is that Apple's early history was all about tinkering and hacking the device. The very first Apple I was all about it, that was the original purpose!

Whilst I believe the iPad should have OS X installed instead, perhaps in the future it would.

I don't disagree with you that the locking down the device is deplorable on its own. And the vast majority of Apple's customers don't care if it is locked down.

Just like any business, Apple is in the business of selling products for a profit. While today it seems that Apple is alienating their original customers, the hacker (using the original definition of the word, not what the media uses these days).

Is this Steve's doing? I don't know. Though it seems like it is the exact opposite of what his mantra is, perhaps they will make more open products.

I really can't see them making the Mac into an iPad like device, that only way to install software is to use an App Store.

That will single-handedly destroy the company and the shareholders won't be pleased.

I think what people expected the tablet to be was too high, but in this case, I really think using iPhone OS was a mistake and unfortunately, I don't think Apple will get it that changing the OS would make it more successful. Enough people use Mac OS to know how to use it already.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: Comment by Laurence
by darknexus on Mon 1st Feb 2010 17:05 in reply to "RE: Comment by Laurence"
darknexus Member since:
2008-07-15

Not sure that using OS X on the iPad would've worked all that well. Sure, the os would most likely run (wouldn't surprise me if Apple has an ARM version of OS X hidden away) but none of your Mac apps would work without a recompile. In the case of the free and/or foss apps this probably wouldn't be an issue for long, but a lot of the commercial apps people are relying on would probably take longer and, I'd bet, charge an additional cost for their ARM versions. An os is nothing without apps to run on top of it, and the iPhone OS clearly wins on an ARM-based device like the iPad since all current apps for it will work automatically.
I'm not disagreeing, I would've very much preferred to see OS X on the iPad myself. That would've pretty much made my dream netbook/tablet. I do think it made more immediate sense to use the iPhone OS instead though. Whether it makes the most sense in the long term I don't know.

Reply Parent Score: 3

jabbotts Member since:
2007-09-06

I don't know if making the application store the primary method of loading software onto the desktop and laptop would kill them. I've long argued that if Microsoft wanted to really benefit the end user, they'd setup software repositories; vetted and verified software packaged for easy install from a central trusted storage. If hundreds of people can manage to keep the repositories solid around Linux distributions then MS and Apple can surely provide similar software delivery (the challenges are business executive related rather than technological).

Apple could do a lot worse than centralizing software delivery through a managed repository. Mind you, they'd have to allow competitive software and be a little more clear than they are in managing the current app store business.

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[2]: Comment by Laurence
by flanque on Mon 1st Feb 2010 22:22 in reply to "RE: Comment by Laurence"
flanque Member since:
2005-12-15

It would be idiotic to declare war on the tinkerers.

When will these organisations learn - you cannot beat the collective knowledge, determination and resources of the entire hacking globe.

Bring it on Apple.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE: Comment by Laurence
by mkools on Mon 1st Feb 2010 17:02 in reply to "Comment by Laurence"
mkools Member since:
2005-10-11

The problem in this is that I think the iPhone is one of the best smart phones at this time -but- I don't want to support Apple because I don't like their closed nature so that's why I bought a Blackberry and a Zune HD.

Now, I'm not saying Blackberry or Microsoft have an open nature, I just don't like Apple's closed nature AND I don't like them as a company so I would never buy anything with their logo on it.

Still, when I see people work with an iPhone and see them use all the great and funny apps that you can download to it a voice in my head says to me I want one, but that would go against all my principles.

So I rather buy something else even though it isn't as good as Apple's products but most of the people wouldn't think this way, they go with the hype.

Apple is already in control of like 35% of all smart phone users and that's a bad thing. People should think more before they buy something although I guess you can't blame them.

Reply Parent Score: 7

RE[2]: Comment by Laurence
by darknexus on Mon 1st Feb 2010 17:14 in reply to "RE: Comment by Laurence"
darknexus Member since:
2008-07-15

I do wish I could find an alternative to my iPhone, but I can't. It's a bit of an odd situation for me: I hate the lockdown, I don't want to support Apple's practices and yet they make the only accessible device out of the box. To turn anywhere else for me, i.e. Symbian or Windows Mobile, would require an extra $300-$400 for the software I'd need to make the phones accessible. SO I don't want to support Apple on one hand, but I feel they deserve my support on the other hand. In my case, the pragmatic hand won: they make a device that I can use, and I use it. If there comes an alternative that's as good, I'll jump on it. Until then, guess I'll just have to put up with Apple and my iPhone's restrictions. I'd sure like to find something else, as getting the 3gs to work with Linux is a royal pain, and Ubuntu 9.10 has come sufficiently far enough for my needs that it could replace OS X in every other way for me.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: Comment by Laurence
by ariarinen on Mon 1st Feb 2010 18:09 in reply to "RE: Comment by Laurence"
ariarinen Member since:
2009-02-07


Apple is already in control of like 35% of all smart phone users and that's a bad thing. People should think more before they buy something although I guess you can't blame them.

Maybe in the US!

Of the 53 million smartphones sold in 4Q 2009 (Global):
Apple sold 8.7 million Iphones so that would give them a market share of 16.4 %.
RIM sold 10.7 million BlackBerry so that would give them a market share of 20.2 %.
Nokia sold 20.8 million smartphones, so that would give them a market share of 39.2 %.

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE: Comment by Laurence
by matttp on Mon 1st Feb 2010 18:01 in reply to "Comment by Laurence"
matttp Member since:
2010-02-01

Yes, it is true that there is a marketplace of products and ideas; but I think you're missing a critical point:

Apple's choice to continue down this path sets a terrible precedent in expectations about openness. True, Apple has been a walled garden for a while now, but the company's choice in doing this will legitimize further restrictions in the minds of the ignorant. You can't forget that, like it or not, some legal venues in the United States do use contemporary social values and trends in their judgments. Do you really want the rest of society thinking that such paternalism is really healthy?

Reply Parent Score: 6

RE: Comment by Laurence
by Anonymous Penguin on Mon 1st Feb 2010 19:33 in reply to "Comment by Laurence"
Anonymous Penguin Member since:
2005-07-06

Exactly. That is why I have never bought anything Apple, nor I am planning to buy in the foreseeable future.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE: Comment by Laurence
by vivainio on Mon 1st Feb 2010 21:20 in reply to "Comment by Laurence"
vivainio Member since:
2008-12-26

So if you don't like Apple's closed nature then the answer is simple: support someone else.


Right - and, if they happen to be your children, you get to decide what you buy them. If you want your child to become an engineer, don't buy him an apple product.

Edited 2010-02-01 21:21 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE: Comment by Laurence
by kaiwai on Tue 2nd Feb 2010 06:07 in reply to "Comment by Laurence"
kaiwai Member since:
2005-07-06

Contrary to popular belief - there are competing products to many (if not all) of Apples products.

So if you don't like Apple's closed nature then the answer is simple: support someone else.


Yes, there are alternatives but are they as good as what Apple provides? but you are right, if people don't like the 'trap' then don't purchase the product. I've just recently had a look at the Cowon players whose audio output quality is superior to iPod Touch and cheaper as well - so there are viable alternatives in some cases.

Reply Parent Score: 2