Linked by Thom Holwerda on Mon 1st Feb 2010 16:25 UTC
General Development While the iPad can certainly be debated as a product, people on the internet are discussing not the product, but the shift devices like the iPhone and iPad represent: a shift away from a computer being accessible to it being something closed and impenetrable. Is this a future we want for ourselves?
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RE[6]: Same old whining. . .
by KingRocky on Tue 2nd Feb 2010 13:22 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Same old whining. . ."
KingRocky
Member since:
2009-07-30

First, I don't know about american cars average milage and reliability level, but my grand-family own a Citroen 2CV and did over 150000 km with it (~100000 miles) without that much issue. Many families did the same too, as at this time changing the car every 2-3 years wasn't even financially possible. So, my mileage vary ;-)


Really?? Your family really owned and drove a Citroen for 150,000km without EVER having to work on a carburetor, adjust ignition points, adjust ignition timing, lubricate the chassis, change the spark plugs, cap, rotor or spark plug wires??

Impossible.

On a modern car, you don't have to touch ANY of those things for the first 150,000km. All you have to do is put gas in it and change the oil, which can be done by anyone anywhere.

And if someone is offering me GUARANTEED performance, then YES, I will take it back to where I bought it to get it fixed!

A modern automobile is so complex it boggles the mind. It has multiple computers controlling multiple things - all for the safety, comfort, reliability, performance, economy and cleanliness that the buying public and the government DEMAND.

And if I were a car manufacturer, there's NO WAY I'd EVER let some random mechanic start poking around in my newest creation that I just spent a BILLION DOLLARS developing.

Because ultimately, if something goes wrong and the mechanic is unable to fix it, or does a poor repair job and the problem comes back, the one who looks bad is the MANUFACTURER, NOT THE MECHANIC who didn't know what he was doing because he ASSUMED that everything works the same way it did on last year's model.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[7]: Same old whining. . .
by phoudoin on Tue 2nd Feb 2010 15:13 in reply to "RE[6]: Same old whining. . ."
phoudoin Member since:
2006-06-09

Really?? Your family really owned and drove a Citroen for 150,000km without EVER having to work on a carburetor, adjust ignition points, adjust ignition timing, lubricate the chassis, change the spark plugs, cap, rotor or spark plug wires??


Nope. But:
1) I never claimed it,
2) you didn't claim it should (until now)
3) I know zero car manufacturer who guarantee (not need to go uppercase/loud mode) their customers that the car will run up to 150,000km with just gas and oil resupply.

What I claim is they did it without being locked to maintain their car only in Citroen repair shops, while having a reliable car with limited repair/maintenance costs.

All you have to do is put gas in it and change the oil, which can be done by anyone anywhere.


Never heard of car battery locked by proprietary screw or hidden under some sealed block, which force people to change the car battery in an official repair shop? And obviously, your brake pads don't erode either during 150,000km, as several moving pieces are self-lubricating too.

Oh please.
Just gas and oil until 150,000km. Yeah right.

A modern automobile is so complex it boggles the mind.


And as everybody knows, complexity and reliability are playing in the same team, like synonyms. Always was, is and would.

And if I were a car manufacturer, there's NO WAY I'd EVER let some random mechanic start poking around in my newest creation that I just spent a BILLION DOLLARS developing.


Sorry, but no.They're not the owner of the sold car anymore. They have no right to forbid the owner to do whatever he wants with his car. It was a sale price, not a lease one.
What they could do is limiting the warranty under strict conditions, indeed, as the gouvernement can force car owners to pass strick technical controls to allow them to use it on public roads. Outside these limits, a car owner can do whatever with it: he buy it, he don't lease its usage.

the one who looks bad is the MANUFACTURER, NOT THE MECHANIC who didn't know what he was doing because he ASSUMED that everything works the same way it did on last year's model.


Oh please. Histories of manufacturers who refuse to take under warrant their own repair shops poor jobs are legions! Whatever happened, they always try to avoid to honor the warrant, even when they were the only one to ever had access the car internals.

I don't deny that there is some security concern to let potentially unskilled third party change something on a modern car, but I claim that's not the #1 reason behind the closed-design they've all moved toward during the last two decades. While the sale price tag didn't raised that much, car design and building cost had exploded. Their only mean to make enough profit now is to sale the car *and* enough repair services with it.

To go back on topic, Apple don't need that to cover their sale cost. But they do make bigger and bigger profit doing it. Thanks to locked customers.

I agree with one of the first post: you don't own an Apple product. You lease it. Except you pay it more than concurrent *sold* products...

Edited 2010-02-02 15:31 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[8]: Same old whining. . .
by KingRocky on Tue 2nd Feb 2010 15:24 in reply to "RE[7]: Same old whining. . ."
KingRocky Member since:
2009-07-30

They don't need it to cover their costs, no. But they DO need it to maintain their brand image and customer loyalty.

People who buy Apple products WANT that simplicity and convenience. They don't care if they can't get root access to install some third-party operating system or program. The product does what it was advertised to do, and they are happy with it the way it is.

As I said in my other posts, there are THOUSANDS of other products that do not follow Apple's business model, and the consumer is free to choose one of them as an alternative.

Reply Parent Score: 2