Linked by Thom Holwerda on Tue 2nd Feb 2010 23:25 UTC, submitted by Chicken Blood
Apple The beauty of the internet is such that every opinion has become worthless; this goes doubly so for those with publish buttons on (relatively, we're humble) major websites. For every opinion, there's a matching counter-opinion, and that's great. Yesterday, we linked to an article by Mark Pilgrim about tinkerers and the iPad, and of course, someone was bound to disagree with that one.
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RE: Now that's Sniveling!
by nt_jerkface on Wed 3rd Feb 2010 00:44 UTC in reply to "Now that's Sniveling! "
nt_jerkface
Member since:
2009-08-26

No he is pointing out that there are plenty of gadgets to tinker with.

There are in fact far more computing devices to tinker with than there were in the 80's. So this idea that Apple is starting a war against tinkerers is just plain silly.

You can get a tablet pc that runs Linux. You can get a toy robot that runs Linux. Apple computers have always been locked up, I barely learned anything with them as a kid. I learned far more taking my pc apart and making custom autoexec.bat and config.sys files so my games would work.

Kids have all kinds of options these days to learn how computers work. Most don't care just as most adults don't care. Some people seem to have a hard time with this reality.

Reply Parent Score: 3

Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

And you seem to have a hard time with the reality that we are NOT talking about now, but about the future. A lot of people - me included - fear where this is going to, not where it is now.

Reply Parent Score: 5

nt_jerkface Member since:
2009-08-26

Hmmm I kind remember the title being Apple has declared war on tinkerers, not will declare war in the future.

I don't see why people should be upset with this anymore than with a game console. It isn't making standard computers disappear.

What I see are a bunch of people that are upset that Apple isn't catering to them. Too bad.

Apple has never been about tinkering anyways. They don't even want you replacing the hard drive on the iMAC. They expect you to lug the thing down to the genius bar. This is what happens when you buy Apple, nothing new.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[3]: Now that's Sniveling!
by lemur2 on Wed 3rd Feb 2010 02:30 in reply to "RE[2]: Now that's Sniveling! "
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

And you seem to have a hard time with the reality that we are NOT talking about now, but about the future. A lot of people - me included - fear where this is going to, not where it is now.


Spot on, Thom. As you say, the enlightening quote is the one you pointed out regards DVD Jon.

From your introduction:
The quote in Pilgrim's article about DVD Jon really says it all. Which computer did he break into? His own.


My own computer is actually an "upgrade kit". It consisted originally of a motherboard, a CPU, some RAM sticks, a video card, a blank hard disk drive, a CD/DVD burner, and a case and power supply (some of these pieces were purchased seperately). I assembled these components, I turned it on, I set the BIOS to load an OS from a CD as first preference, and I put an Arch Linux install CD in the CD drive. All of the software and data that is now on that system I have added from there, this system has never seen any commercial EULA-restricted software installed on it at any time.

How on earth would I be deemed to have "broken into" my own system that I bought and then tinkered myself?

Yet doubtless this would be the attitude of the Apple's of this world. Control freaks extraordinaire. Anti-freedom in every sense.

The latest push from the control-freak set seems to be to try and subvert HTML5 so that the video codec is h264, not Theora.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ogg_controversy
have the potential for universal acceptance, creating a "baseline format" that everyone is both able and permitted to use without restrictions


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ogg_controversy#Opposition
Nokia's objection seems to be that the open Theora codecs that everyone is indeed "both able and permitted to use without restrictions" is not a proprietary codec! Really!
Among them, Nokia's paper states that "a W3C-led standardization of a 'free' codec, or the active endorsement of proprietary technology such as Ogg … by W3C, is, in our opinion, not helpful." Ogg's codecs are licensed under the BSD open source license, and are therefore not proprietary in any accepted sense of the word.


Well der.

Apple's objection was pure FUD:
Apple Computer have also opposed the inclusion of Ogg formats in the HTML standard on the grounds that H.264 performs better
... FUD obviously motivated by Apple's self-interest, since Apple are members of MPEG-LA.

The comment from Web Hypertext Application Technology Working Group makes no sense at all, because it applies the least to Theora of all possible candidate codecs:
WHATWG has cited concerns over the Ogg formats still being within patent lifetime and thus vulnerable to unknown patents
(Ogg Theora is royalty-free covered by its own patents, and these are the oldest patents of any codec that was proposed).

Apple in particular is almost blatantly "advertising" for anyone to come forward who may have such a currently-mythical unkown patent, in an ill-disguised attempt to stop Theora adoption. Fortunately, no-one seems to actually have anything even resembling such a patent, thereby effectively disproving the WHATWG objection.

This is relevant because the iPad, delivered as it is with no Flash, has no support at all for web video other than HTML5/h264.

So the control freaks are out in force, and applying spin, spin and evermore spin trying to assert their control over what YOU may or may not do on YOUR OWN COMPUTER.

That is unbelieveable chutzpah.

Edited 2010-02-03 02:41 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 4

apoclypse Member since:
2007-02-17

I guess the reason we are having issues understanding your point is because you know about as much as we do about the future and spreading FUD just because you think something will happen when there is every indication that it wouldn't is just plain irresponsible. There are enough things to tinker with. In-fact why don't one of these tinkerers make something for them, oh thats right, they have and people still rather hack an iphone instead. Here you have a product made to be hacked and modded to your hearts content and people would rather crack the closed proprietary solution. Why is that? Why complain about it and not focus on the product you can tinker with to your hearts content?

I really don't see the reasoning, I don't get the "Think of the children" arguments. I don't get why our geek paradise has anything to do with what a consumer wants. Clearly the two are not the same, because the ones most interested in the iPhone and the iPad are people who actually want to use the product for what it was intended for not hack it pieces to get it just right for you.

Who cares if the iPad is a closed system. Make your own pad and make it as open as you'd like. Put Linux on it, make the hardware open, let users put whatever they want on it. Try to compete with Apple. HP, Dell, Acer are all waiting in the wings to see how this plays out so that they can drop their own solution which will most likely be as open as you'd like them to be. I don't see the big deal and frankly at this point I think you are just trying to get page hits by posting nonsense poised as arguments when really all you are posting is speculation.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: Now that's Sniveling!
by jimbee on Wed 3rd Feb 2010 02:34 in reply to "RE: Now that's Sniveling! "
jimbee Member since:
2007-05-05

Apple computers have not always been locked up. The Apple II series was very open.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[3]: Now that's Sniveling!
by lemur2 on Wed 3rd Feb 2010 02:42 in reply to "RE[2]: Now that's Sniveling! "
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

Apple computers have not always been locked up. The Apple II series was very open.


And now, with the iPad, Apple have moved in completely the opposite direction.

Reply Parent Score: 2

tyrione Member since:
2005-11-21

Apple computers have not always been locked up. The Apple II series was very open.


Correct, but then again the bulk of people scouring these boards most likely weren't kids when the Apple II was first announced.

Reply Parent Score: 2

nt_jerkface Member since:
2009-08-26

Apple computers have not always been locked up. The Apple II series was very open.


And when did that come out? Every mac I have ever used was locked up. The point is that the ipad isn't a change of pace for the company. The ipad is just a streched out ipod touch.

Just look at what it takes to change the hard drive on the imac:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YsCTNVEYt8

Or how about how you need a putty knife to change the hard drive on the mac mini
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIiSaunTWWM&feature=related

Apple locks down their computers and devices. More news at 11.

Reply Parent Score: 2

bosco_bearbank Member since:
2005-10-12

Apple computers have not always been locked up! I don't know if that statement represents stupidity or just plain ignorance on your part (the latter is excusable, the former is not), but the Apple ][ and its immediate successors were definitely not locked up.

Reply Parent Score: 1