Linked by Thom Holwerda on Tue 2nd Feb 2010 23:25 UTC, submitted by Chicken Blood
Apple The beauty of the internet is such that every opinion has become worthless; this goes doubly so for those with publish buttons on (relatively, we're humble) major websites. For every opinion, there's a matching counter-opinion, and that's great. Yesterday, we linked to an article by Mark Pilgrim about tinkerers and the iPad, and of course, someone was bound to disagree with that one.
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RE[2]: Now that's Sniveling!
by Thom_Holwerda on Wed 3rd Feb 2010 01:00 UTC in reply to "RE: Now that's Sniveling! "
Thom_Holwerda
Member since:
2005-06-29

And you seem to have a hard time with the reality that we are NOT talking about now, but about the future. A lot of people - me included - fear where this is going to, not where it is now.

Reply Parent Score: 5

nt_jerkface Member since:
2009-08-26

Hmmm I kind remember the title being Apple has declared war on tinkerers, not will declare war in the future.

I don't see why people should be upset with this anymore than with a game console. It isn't making standard computers disappear.

What I see are a bunch of people that are upset that Apple isn't catering to them. Too bad.

Apple has never been about tinkering anyways. They don't even want you replacing the hard drive on the iMAC. They expect you to lug the thing down to the genius bar. This is what happens when you buy Apple, nothing new.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[3]: Now that's Sniveling!
by lemur2 on Wed 3rd Feb 2010 02:30 in reply to "RE[2]: Now that's Sniveling! "
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

And you seem to have a hard time with the reality that we are NOT talking about now, but about the future. A lot of people - me included - fear where this is going to, not where it is now.


Spot on, Thom. As you say, the enlightening quote is the one you pointed out regards DVD Jon.

From your introduction:
The quote in Pilgrim's article about DVD Jon really says it all. Which computer did he break into? His own.


My own computer is actually an "upgrade kit". It consisted originally of a motherboard, a CPU, some RAM sticks, a video card, a blank hard disk drive, a CD/DVD burner, and a case and power supply (some of these pieces were purchased seperately). I assembled these components, I turned it on, I set the BIOS to load an OS from a CD as first preference, and I put an Arch Linux install CD in the CD drive. All of the software and data that is now on that system I have added from there, this system has never seen any commercial EULA-restricted software installed on it at any time.

How on earth would I be deemed to have "broken into" my own system that I bought and then tinkered myself?

Yet doubtless this would be the attitude of the Apple's of this world. Control freaks extraordinaire. Anti-freedom in every sense.

The latest push from the control-freak set seems to be to try and subvert HTML5 so that the video codec is h264, not Theora.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ogg_controversy
have the potential for universal acceptance, creating a "baseline format" that everyone is both able and permitted to use without restrictions


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ogg_controversy#Opposition
Nokia's objection seems to be that the open Theora codecs that everyone is indeed "both able and permitted to use without restrictions" is not a proprietary codec! Really!
Among them, Nokia's paper states that "a W3C-led standardization of a 'free' codec, or the active endorsement of proprietary technology such as Ogg … by W3C, is, in our opinion, not helpful." Ogg's codecs are licensed under the BSD open source license, and are therefore not proprietary in any accepted sense of the word.


Well der.

Apple's objection was pure FUD:
Apple Computer have also opposed the inclusion of Ogg formats in the HTML standard on the grounds that H.264 performs better
... FUD obviously motivated by Apple's self-interest, since Apple are members of MPEG-LA.

The comment from Web Hypertext Application Technology Working Group makes no sense at all, because it applies the least to Theora of all possible candidate codecs:
WHATWG has cited concerns over the Ogg formats still being within patent lifetime and thus vulnerable to unknown patents
(Ogg Theora is royalty-free covered by its own patents, and these are the oldest patents of any codec that was proposed).

Apple in particular is almost blatantly "advertising" for anyone to come forward who may have such a currently-mythical unkown patent, in an ill-disguised attempt to stop Theora adoption. Fortunately, no-one seems to actually have anything even resembling such a patent, thereby effectively disproving the WHATWG objection.

This is relevant because the iPad, delivered as it is with no Flash, has no support at all for web video other than HTML5/h264.

So the control freaks are out in force, and applying spin, spin and evermore spin trying to assert their control over what YOU may or may not do on YOUR OWN COMPUTER.

That is unbelieveable chutzpah.

Edited 2010-02-03 02:41 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 4

shotsman Member since:
2005-07-22

I think the market is diverging with the advent of appliances like the iPhone, iPad and their imitators.

I make the car analogy.
The iPad, iPhone etc are your bog standard car that apart from filling the windscreen washer bottle many owner never open the bonnet/hood.

However that are still the people who like to tinker with their cars. Be it fitting a zillion watt sound system, bigger exhause, different camshafts & fuel injectors etc etc, they are the tinkerers.

As any market matures the proportion of the market of the 'non tinkerers' grows whilst (again proportionally) the % market share of the tinkerers shrinks.

Reply Parent Score: 2

apoclypse Member since:
2007-02-17

I guess the reason we are having issues understanding your point is because you know about as much as we do about the future and spreading FUD just because you think something will happen when there is every indication that it wouldn't is just plain irresponsible. There are enough things to tinker with. In-fact why don't one of these tinkerers make something for them, oh thats right, they have and people still rather hack an iphone instead. Here you have a product made to be hacked and modded to your hearts content and people would rather crack the closed proprietary solution. Why is that? Why complain about it and not focus on the product you can tinker with to your hearts content?

I really don't see the reasoning, I don't get the "Think of the children" arguments. I don't get why our geek paradise has anything to do with what a consumer wants. Clearly the two are not the same, because the ones most interested in the iPhone and the iPad are people who actually want to use the product for what it was intended for not hack it pieces to get it just right for you.

Who cares if the iPad is a closed system. Make your own pad and make it as open as you'd like. Put Linux on it, make the hardware open, let users put whatever they want on it. Try to compete with Apple. HP, Dell, Acer are all waiting in the wings to see how this plays out so that they can drop their own solution which will most likely be as open as you'd like them to be. I don't see the big deal and frankly at this point I think you are just trying to get page hits by posting nonsense poised as arguments when really all you are posting is speculation.

Reply Parent Score: 2

Bill Shooter of Bul Member since:
2006-07-14

I don't think you understand idealism. Its not enough for me to be free, if my brother is enslaved. There are those of us who cages cannot hold: that does not mean we can rest easy; that does not mean we can free every one who cannot break the bars themselves. It does mean that we will have to spend a lot of our energy breaking cages that people try to put us in, that we could have spent doing something more productive.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[4]: Now that's Sniveling!
by lemur2 on Wed 3rd Feb 2010 04:08 in reply to "RE[3]: Now that's Sniveling! "
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

because the ones most interested in the iPhone and the iPad are people who actually want to use the product for what it was intended for not hack it pieces to get it just right for you.

Who cares if the iPad is a closed system.


The problem is when the manufacturer of the closed system uses it later to say: "there are a lot of people who have only that closed system, and hence they can use only this or that when they connect to the web ... therefore the web itself can be allowed to present only this or that".

Apple have already historically used exactly such an argument viz a viz audio formats and the iPod. Now, via the iPad and iPhone, they are trying to do this same trick all over again in order to eliminate open format video on the web (such as the video which Wikipedia/Wikimedia uses) in favour of proprietary format video in which they have an interest in the applicable patents.

iPad user? ... then public access, public domain data is NOT FOR YOU!!! (according to Apple).

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Media_help

This is why people care ... because the closed nature of iPads will be used against the freedom of people who don't own an iPad and wouldn't touch it because it is so limiting.

Edited 2010-02-03 04:20 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 3