Linked by Thom Holwerda on Tue 2nd Feb 2010 23:25 UTC, submitted by Chicken Blood
Apple The beauty of the internet is such that every opinion has become worthless; this goes doubly so for those with publish buttons on (relatively, we're humble) major websites. For every opinion, there's a matching counter-opinion, and that's great. Yesterday, we linked to an article by Mark Pilgrim about tinkerers and the iPad, and of course, someone was bound to disagree with that one.
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RE: Now that's Sniveling!
by cb_osn on Wed 3rd Feb 2010 03:23 UTC in reply to "Now that's Sniveling! "
cb_osn
Member since:
2006-02-26

The author is whining more than anyone else I've heard. He's a pragmatist who's willing to compromise. Nothing really wrong with that, we need people like that. But, he's trashing the whole notion of idealism (talk about grandiose), and that's just wrong. There are times when even avowed idealists have to compromise. That doesn't mean that they cannot have ideals and try to change the world to fit those ideals. They just shouldn't give up because the world doesn't adhere to their idea of what it should be.

All well and good, but they're not really idealists-- they are reactionaries. The direction that Apple is moving is a welcome change after nearly two decades of stagnation in personal computing. It's a new computing model and just because Apple's version of it is closed doesn't mean that being closed is inherent to the model. The problem is that these so called idealists are not putting forth any alternatives-- they are only arguing for the status quo. When it comes to technology, the status quo is not good enough.

In other words, if you don't like what Apple is doing, then show us something else. I'd love to see some other ideas, particularly from those that prefer open solutions. If all you have to offer as alternatives are Windows, GNOME or KDE on a netbook or slate, and you honestly think that is acceptable for the next decade of computing, then you just don't get it and likely never will.

Reply Parent Score: 2

Bill Shooter of Bul Member since:
2006-07-14

Its not like we're reactionary against any real part of the iphone or the ipad. We wouldn't be "reacting" if we were able to install our own programs on the devices without "jail breaking" the devices. Its not a criticism of any functional part of the system.

I also reject the patently absurd idea that the computer industry has ever stagnated. That's ridiculous.

Reply Parent Score: 5

earksiinni Member since:
2009-03-27

To the contrary, the computer industry is stuck in a permanent state of stagnation. Technical innovation, yes, but still the same paper-based paradigms that fail to take full advantage of the computer's capabilities. I think that the Kindle is a perfect example.

Computers aren't unique in this trend, and any information technology borrows heavily from its preceding technology in the beginning. The fonts for the printing press in the West were basically replicas of cursive handwriting until Aldus, and if you read Plato you'll see plenty of issues with the invention of writing, introduced to Athens right around the time of Socrates. In general, everyone thinks about the development of computers purely in terms of their engineering, but rarely do we hear their historical context.

C'mon and downvote this, baby (for my Kindle comment)!

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[3]: Now that's Sniveling!
by cb_osn on Wed 3rd Feb 2010 07:44 in reply to "RE[2]: Now that's Sniveling! "
cb_osn Member since:
2006-02-26

I also reject the patently absurd idea that the computer industry has ever stagnated. That's ridiculous.

The science has certainly progressed. Hardware has become exponentially more powerful. Research in programming languages and algorithms has grown by leaps and bounds. Yet the interactive and conceptual models that we use today are still fundamentally identical to those developed at Xerox PARC and introduced with the original Macintosh in 1984.

Applications are still massive walled gardens that operate on isolated documents. We're still stuck digging through dozens, hundreds or thousands of menus and submenus to access features. Data is still stored as untyped, unstructured buckets of bits that carry a single piece of metadata and are presented in a hierarchical folder structure that is the direct analog of a physical filing cabinet.

That was the paradigm that was introduced with the original Macintosh, and 26 years later, even with all the staggering advances in technology, nothing has changed.

I call that stagnation and I also find it patently absurd.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: Now that's Sniveling!
by _xmv on Wed 3rd Feb 2010 10:56 in reply to "RE: Now that's Sniveling! "
_xmv Member since:
2008-12-09


All well and good, but they're not really idealists-- they are reactionaries. The direction that Apple is moving is a welcome change after nearly two decades of stagnation in personal computing. It's a new computing model and just because Apple's version of it is closed doesn't mean that being closed is inherent to the model.

In other words, if you don't like what Apple is doing, then show us something else.

what the hell are you talking about?
how is the iPad different ? you've never seen a tablet pc before? Cause they've been around for 10 years, mind you. All there is, is an Apple marketing head on top of it. That's no new computing model. Neither is making it entierely DRM controlled and closed.
Have you seen the anti-intel TPM video? that's the same story, except they don't even need to cover it under the claims of greater security anymore.

Heck, its even using a 3 years old OS and apps.

Such people as you, which are called sheeps, are the reason for most things going wrong in this world. Time to get off your eye protections and look around.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[3]: Now that's Sniveling!
by cb_osn on Wed 3rd Feb 2010 11:30 in reply to "RE[2]: Now that's Sniveling! "
cb_osn Member since:
2006-02-26

what the hell are you talking about?
how is the iPad different ? you've never seen a tablet pc before? Cause they've been around for 10 years, mind you.

Yes, they have been around for a while. And yes, they've been a monumental failure because they've been shackled to a decades old interface paradigm that simply doesn't work for a touch based device. The iPad is different because it tosses the old stuff out the window and provides a platform for building software that is designed from the ground up for that form factor and interaction model. The difference is hugely significant.

Have you seen the anti-intel TPM video? that's the same story, except they don't even need to cover it under the claims of greater security anymore.

Oh please. I'm well aware of the implications of a DRM controlled future and I don't wish for it anymore than you do. I praise Apple's move with the iPad because it will shatter long held expectations about what computing is and possibly can be-- not for their creation of a closed ecosystem. I fully expect that once the hysterics die down, everyone will see the chasm that they've opened and that new ideas, both proprietary and open, will come forth.

Such people as you, which are called sheeps, are the reason for most things going wrong in this world. Time to get off your eye protections and look around.

Judging from your post, I'm sure you don't have the depth of understanding to make such statements.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: Now that's Sniveling!
by boldingd on Wed 3rd Feb 2010 17:38 in reply to "RE: Now that's Sniveling! "
boldingd Member since:
2009-02-19

Old is not always bad, and new is not automatically better. There are plenty of things that are very wrong with what Apple is doing, and pointing that out doesn't mean that we're idiots who can't clearly see where the technology is headed.

That shouldn't need to be said; it should be obvious. The revelation that "things will probably be different in ten years!" shouldn't by everybody who wants to do things differently a free pass out of critical analysis of the benefits and costs of their proposition, nor should it require me to come up with some brilliant scheme to Fundamentally Alter the Desktop to point out the obvious downsides in Apple's brilliant plan.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: Now that's Sniveling!
by jabbotts on Wed 3rd Feb 2010 19:22 in reply to "RE: Now that's Sniveling! "
jabbotts Member since:
2007-09-06

got a staffed fab plant you can lend me?

Reply Parent Score: 2