Linked by Thom Holwerda on Fri 12th Feb 2010 22:55 UTC
Microsoft Sometimes, the sheer size of a company like Microsoft can make it quite hard to see and realise just how large and profitable such a company can really be. In these kinds of situations, there's nothing like a clear graph to make all those pretty numbers tangible. Up to a point.
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Comment by Kroc
by Kroc on Sat 13th Feb 2010 14:06 UTC
Kroc
Member since:
2005-11-10

Making something that isn't centered around Windows is Microsoft's biggest challenge. I believe that Windows is becoming increasingly irrelevant to consumers as they migrate to the web and other better, easier experiences (iPad / ChromeOS).

Consumers don't *want* Windows, they are forced to need it, due to market forces and the Windows monopoly. They just want a computer that works the same everytime they switch it on and doesn't randomly break, slow down or constantly confuse them with indecipherable messages.

Consumers don't want Word, Excel or Powerpoint--they want to write letters to their friends, they want to calculate their expenses, they want to impress their boss at the meeting. They don't give a crap about what they use to do that as long as it's easy.

If something easier than Windows and easier than Office comes out, and it isn't sidelined by the OEMs and by crappy sales staff, then Microsoft are screwed. The iPad is this device, I believe--or, the iPad in two years, as it will take that long to improve and to filter through the geek crowd and down to consumers.

OEMs have been selling consumers crappy workstations that are good at nothing consumers want to do. Look at what Apple can do with 1GHz in the iPad. PCs hit 1GHz in 2000, when Windows98 and Netscape were king.

*Desktop operating systems are toast, finished, done with* in the consumer space. Workstations and desktop OSes are for geeks and businesses, they do not serve the majority's needs.

If the iPhone is anything to go by, OEMs are going to be seriously feeling the competition as Apple come to dominate the market whilst HP and Co prat about with Windows 7 tablets.

Reply Score: 5

RE: Comment by Kroc
by kragil on Sat 13th Feb 2010 15:45 in reply to "Comment by Kroc"
kragil Member since:
2006-01-04

At first I found myself agreeing with your comment, but then I thought about my older sisters and their families and I think they wouldn't like to live with the limitations of the Ipad.

I think you are so used to clueless customers that you don't see the people that manage to do quite a bit on Windows with limited interest they have in tech, but also without needing professional support.

First of all the Ipad is not a primary device. It cannot update itself, you need Itunes for that. (ChromeOS can though)
My sisters need to work with cameras and printers .. at the moment the Ipad does seem to be able to work well with those. (ChromeOS might be a bit better, maybe those kind of devices will make WLAN printers with PDF or PS support more popular where you just send a file to that device it prints it exactly like the PDF/PS)

They are used to a few tweaks (adblocking, form fillers etc) that they really would miss.

And those are just the things I can think off of the top of my head .. there certainly is more.

So the Ipad as a primary device .. not likely, ChromeOS maybe (combining it with Android would help) but it will take years and years. Just look at the most popular programs on Windows, a lot of those would have to be developed from the ground up for tablets.

I agree though the Windows is getting more competition and will have to adapt.

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[2]: Comment by Kroc
by Kroc on Sat 13th Feb 2010 15:53 in reply to "RE: Comment by Kroc"
Kroc Member since:
2005-11-10

I think you are so used to clueless customers that you don't see the people that manage to do quite a bit on Windows with limited interest they have in tech, but also without needing professional support.


I see plenty of those too. They do very well for themselves, and I should have worded my post to say "geeks, power users and prosumers". Windows does work for these people, those that are interested enough to make it work, but that’s not the majority unfortunately.

First of all the Ipad is not a primary device. It cannot update itself, you need Itunes for that.


This is the single biggest flaw with the iPad (that it cannot easily be your one and only computer). I think that if it gets popular enough, Apple will realise that the iPad needs to operate independently. Also I hope there will be good competition in this area in the form of ChromeOS / Android and others.

If the iPad / ChromeOS become popular enough the printer manufacturers will be forced into doing things in a standard way. Google are trying to force this with ChromeOS by asking manufacturers to supply a standard protocol and CUPS drivers and no more of that .MSI crap.

Apple badly need the competition to get them to open up the device and let it function with anybody’s equipment and no more "Made for iPad" restrictions.

edit: s/baldy/badly

Edited 2010-02-13 15:59 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE: Comment by Kroc
by siride on Sat 13th Feb 2010 16:20 in reply to "Comment by Kroc"
siride Member since:
2006-01-02

This isn't interesting. It's true that people don't want a thing itself, they want it for what it does and for how it benefits them. Well, DUH! So saying "users don't want Windows, they want a computer that works" is not interesting in the slightest. Nor does it say anything about Windows. Windows works, it's easy, everyone knows it and so it fulfills people's needs to have a computer that works. Just typing that last sentences makes the tautology clear.

Believe it or not, people do actually like Windows and Office and other MS products. I know the Linux community has nurtured this idea that they only reason those two are around is because of OEMs or "people don't know better", but that is patently false. MS won fair and square and continues to win fair and square by providing products that people want and that do what they need. They aren't perfect. But then again, neither is a lot of FLOSS software.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: Comment by Kroc
by Kroc on Sat 13th Feb 2010 16:51 in reply to "RE: Comment by Kroc"
Kroc Member since:
2005-11-10

If Windows worked then I would be out of a job. Instead, I spend 40–60 hours a week helping people. I get two Mac jobs a *year*.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE: Comment by Kroc
by StephenBeDoper on Sat 13th Feb 2010 17:51 in reply to "Comment by Kroc"
StephenBeDoper Member since:
2005-07-06

*Desktop operating systems are toast, finished, done with* in the consumer space. Workstations and desktop OSes are for geeks and businesses, they do not serve the majority's needs.


As with a post I responded to yesterday (claiming that "XP is dead"), your statement will probably be borne out in the long term - but stating it in the present tense is a teensy bit premature. Remember that minicomputers didn't suddenly become irrelevant the second that microcomputers became available.

And it's hard not to be skeptical about predictions of the "death of the desktop," when we've been hearing those exact same predictions for the past 15 years. Remember when "network computers" were the latest sure-fire "desktop-killer"? Or "Internet appliances"?

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[2]: Comment by Kroc
by Kroc on Sat 13th Feb 2010 17:51 in reply to "RE: Comment by Kroc"
Kroc Member since:
2005-11-10

:)

edit: What I mean is that I think there’s not much more than can be done with mouse operating systems beyond polish, and making them better web clients. Even with OS X they’re just improving APIs to allow flashier apps, and polishing the overall experience, but I can’t see how OS X could radically change into something else and not be just a continuation of the point and click desktop. At the end of the day it needs to run Photoshop and XCode the way it does. What more is there to add?

The long term future is the ’Web and the Internet device, everything in-between is transition.

Edited 2010-02-13 17:56 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[2]: Comment by Kroc
by rockwell on Sat 13th Feb 2010 22:31 in reply to "RE: Comment by Kroc"
rockwell Member since:
2005-09-13

Aye, that. "The Network is the Computer."

Really, Sun? How'd that end up for ya?

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE: Comment by Kroc
by nt_jerkface on Sat 13th Feb 2010 22:30 in reply to "Comment by Kroc"
nt_jerkface Member since:
2009-08-26

Making something that isn't centered around Windows is Microsoft's biggest challenge. I believe that Windows is becoming increasingly irrelevant to consumers as they migrate to the web and other better, easier experiences (iPad / ChromeOS).

I'm sorry but that is a misuse of the word irrelevant.

Windows will be a mainstream OS for at least the next decade. That's not irrelevant. ChromeOS and the iPad are targeted at portable use.

Reply Parent Score: 3