Linked by Thom Holwerda on Tue 9th Mar 2010 16:58 UTC
Legal We have some very, very good news for Europeans (which happens to include myself): we have the European Parliament on our sides when it comes to battling ACTA. If you may recall, ACTA is basically an attempt by the US to impose upon the rest of the world draconian measures like three strikes laws and the DMCA. All parties within the European Parliament have together put forth a resolution that would effectively tackle ACTA.
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Thom_Holwerda
Member since:
2005-06-29

No, I want laws to treat people fairly.

Copyright law in The Netherlands is exactly as it should be. Uploading is illegal, while downloading is not, giving law enforcement the handle to fight what I call professional piracy - you know, the kind of piracy that actually hurts the industry, as opposed to grandmother downloading a few songs off the internet.

But I guess you prefer the three strikes system, which means that all internet activity must be monitored by private organisations. I guess you prefer a system where private, non-government organisations have the same kind of power judges have, allowing them to punish people without due trial.

I guess you prefer a world in which the equipment you buy is not yours, and where using said in equipment can lead to jail time simply because the company selling you said equipment disapproves of it.

If that's a world you want to live in, then bugger off to the US, which is currently the paradise you seem to seek, where justice favours the large, rich companies, instead of ordinary individuals.

Reply Parent Score: 12

nt_jerkface Member since:
2009-08-26

No, I want laws to treat people fairly.

Copyright law in The Netherlands is exactly as it should be. Uploading is illegal, while downloading is not,


That amounts to legalized piracy. Even if it is enforced people from outside the country will provide the files.

Letting people download copyright material without permission from the owners is theft. You're letting people steal the work of others without compensation.


But I guess you prefer the three strikes system, which means that all internet activity must be monitored by private organisations. I guess you prefer a system where private, non-government organisations have the same kind of power judges have, allowing them to punish people without due trial.


Private companies don't have the same power the judges have. All ISPs can do is stop providing their own service.

Private companies refuse service for illegal activities all the time. It's a packet delivery service, you don't have a right to using it for illegal activity anymore than you do with other private delivery services.


If that's a world you want to live in, then bugger off to the US, which is currently the paradise you seem to seek, where justice favours the large, rich companies, instead of ordinary individuals.


You're clearly for laws that favor pirates over content producers. What you call "fair" amounts to letting people download all the copyrighted material they want. Just be intellectually honest at least and say you favor pirates over researchers, programmers, artists and musicians.

Reply Parent Score: 1

Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

I think you should re-investigate what copyright means. I don't think it means what you think it does.

Copyright is a state-granted monopoly on distribution. This means that only the copyright holder may distribute that which he holds copyright over. Downloading is not distributing. Downloading is acquiring. Copyright does not concern itself with acquiring, hence why downloading is legal here, while uploading is not.

I can already predict your next retort (since I've had this discussion with the uninformed a dozen times over): isn't downloading akin to buying goods you know were stolen?

That argument would hold up if it wasn't for the fact that breach of copyright (the uploading) is not theft; hence, obtaining such materials cannot be considered the obtaining of stolen goods.

It's pretty simple, really.

Reply Parent Score: 4

danieldk Member since:
2005-11-18

That amounts to legalized piracy.


Except that it is not. In recent times it has always been legal in The Netherlands to, say, borrow a CD in the library (or books for that matter), and making a copy for your own enjoyment. As long as it is for personal non-profit use. To compensate artists, there is a levy on blank media, such as CD-Rs and DVD-Rs. A minister of justice has decided that the situation for downloading is the same. Citizens have already paid for this fair-use right via levies.

Even if you do not have a levy system, downloading should be no criminal offense. Copying is not theft, since there no physical object is being stolen. Making a copy is nearly free. Additionally, research in our country has shown that frequent music downloaders are also people who buy music more frequently.

Why the system as it is set up in many countries is wrong can be shown easily. Suppose that I can spend only 50 Euros of my monthly income in music, and I do so. Now, suppose that I also download 500 Euros worth of material monthly. Is 500 Euros the real damage? No, if I stuck to the law, I'd still have spent the same amount of money on music. If I do not obey the law, downloading 500 Euros worth of music does not cost the industry anything. The 50 + 500 situation is clearly more beneficial for society, and should be aimed for.

The entertainment system is broken and old, and kept in tact by draconian laws. It is time to shoot down those laws (including the DMCA, EUCD, and ACTA), and leverage the real potential of the internet - infrastructure that can bring an enormous of culture to every citizen, and gives artists (and not the industry) the opportunity to earn money.

You're clearly for laws that favor pirates over content producers.


Sure, pirates and artists. Not big media. They should reinvent themselves, or disappear with other archaic 20th century business models and technology. The world is far better of without them.

Edited 2010-03-09 22:43 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 6