Linked by Thom Holwerda on Sat 6th Mar 2010 19:45 UTC
General Development Dust off your he's-a-Microsoft-fanboy complaints, people, because here's yet another story praising the Redmond software giant (sorry). In case you were wondering what the Xbox Live integration on Windows Phone 7 Series (inhale, signified by a comma), meant, then Eric Rudder (what's in a name), Microsoft's Senior Vice President of Technical Strategy, has the answer for you - and it's pretty impressive.
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KermitTheFragger
Member since:
2008-06-12


Oh so your argument is that because it is in a phone and a BMW I should like it? The apps I used and help deploy were noticeably slower then "native" apps.


You hit the nail on the head there: "The apps I used and help deploy ". I used Cisco crappy Java GUI's. They are quite possibly the worst piece of Java engineering on this planet. So why exactly are you complaining about the language / platform if you know the problem is with vendors who made the program ?


but make an app that has a native look and feel. Java apps for the desktop seldom do that, especially on OS X.

Same thing here: "Java apps for the desktop seldom". You basically say it yourself; Java programmers don't generally do that. So what is the issue with the language ? You can use SWT if you want to go native.


Are there any console games you can buy for the PS3, XBOX360, PSP, Wii, PS2, DS at the store that are made with Java? If it is so lightweight and fast why doesn't the game industry make it a standard?


Perhaps for the same reason a dozen other languages are not the defacto standard in the game world (like C# or Assembler) ? What are you saying here ? Game programming is the most intesive use of computer applications in the world ? Requires the THE best language ? So the language that most games are made in must be the best language in the world ? Is that the logic ?

Besides, since when does market adoption equal quality ?

Also you conveniently forget all the Java games on mobile phones. I suppose your going to say; yeah but there just games on small devices: Makes the memory and performance constraints even harder.


wait that's right, Java is an interpreted language and not suitable for high performance apps like games for consoles. Oh I know they have made strides with the latest JVM implementations, but still not there yet...


Right, another expert on profiling the JVM. Could you please tell me a bit about your background before I take your word for it that for example the Sun JVM is slow ?

Besides if you don't like it you can compile all Java programs ahead of time with GCJ or Excelsior JET. Thats right, it can be compiled to an executable just like C, C++ or whatever would. Since it isn't interpreted when you AOT compile it, your point simply isn't valid.


Sure it is, but the syntax is also based on C and that was my point. Not that you would use it as a replacement, just that a Java dev could probably pick it up fairly easy.


Right, thats a bit over simplistic look of things. Thats like saying water and oil are the same thing, there both wet.


it had a bad rep for YEARS

Sure it did, but your presenting all your points as your own opinion, right ?

Reply Parent Score: 1

NeoX Member since:
2006-02-19


You hit the nail on the head there: "The apps I used and help deploy ". I used Cisco crappy Java GUI's. They are quite possibly the worst piece of Java engineering on this planet. So why exactly are you complaining about the language / platform if you know the problem is with vendors who made the program ?

Did I say CISCO? So what are you putting words in my mouth?

Thanks for your insights Kermit. Are you one of the developers for Java because you sure sound like a total Fanboy. I mean WOW the passion for a language all because I said I don't like the experience I have had with Java and wish it would die ON THE DESKTOP. And not even seriously either. But you know better and you instantly know the thought behind a message on a comment thread don't ya?


Same thing here: "Java apps for the desktop seldom". You basically say it yourself; Java programmers don't generally do that. So what is the issue with the language ? You can use SWT if you want to go native.


It's not about the language, it is about the experience that it has produced for an end user. Wether that be the developers fault, the tools, or the language, to an end user it does not matter. If the app is slow, buggy and looks nothing like the native GUI for the OS it is running on then you are not going to have happy users. Yes in the beginning that was the case with most Java Apps. So if it changes great for you, but the type of apps I use demand performance.


Also you conveniently forget all the Java games on mobile phones. I suppose your going to say; yeah but there just games on small devices: Makes the memory and performance constraints even harder.


Oh no I did not conveniently forget about Java games on Mobile phones. That is not the gaming I am referring too. And the ones I have tried have not been great either, so I wouldn't use that as a bragging point for Java games or Java in general. That is not how Java was marketed in the beginning. It was marketed as a cross platform language that could do all these cool things that it really couldn't do great on each platform. they were easy to spot and often criticized, much as they still are today. Not saying it is right, but it is what it is.


Right, thats a bit over simplistic look of things. Thats like saying water and oil are the same thing, there both wet.


Again you missed my point. It would be much easier for a developer that already knows Java to move to other c like structured languages then it would for someone that new VB or delphi or some other such language. That was my point, not that they are the same language.


Sure it did, but your presenting all your points as your own opinion, right ?


I think I made that clear that this was MY OPINION based on the experience I have had with apps written in JAVA. It is my opinion and you don't agree with me having an opinion, that is obvious.

Peace Out.

Reply Parent Score: 1