Linked by Thom Holwerda on Thu 15th Apr 2010 10:42 UTC
Apple While we were al busy getting knickers in twists over section 3.3.1 of the new iPhone developer agreement, Apple hoped to sneak another, possibly more far-reaching change past us. All Things Digital, however, got hold of section 3.3.9, which could effectively kill all third party ad networks - granting an insurmountable advantage to Apple's own iAd network.
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So you like online surveillance?
by Kondor337 on Thu 15th Apr 2010 12:34 UTC
Kondor337
Member since:
2006-09-16

1.) Did you actually read section 3.3.9? I think that section is fantastic. I hate the fact that on the web, you're constantly monitored by ad networks. They know where you're from, what computer you own, which sites you visit, what you're searching for on the internet, etc. etc. It's horrible. On mobile phones, it's even worse. Apps could potentially submit your exact location to some ad network. (On some phones you must allow the app to access your location, but maybe you want the app itself to know where you are, but don't want the ad networks to know.) And you cannot check whether an app spies on you.
Section 3.3.9 is exactly what I would have wished for. Apps may not transmit ANY personal information whatsoever to anyone without my explicit consent. And I can revoke my consent and all already collected personal information has to be deleted. That's a good thing and nothing to criticize Apple for. (Except if you are an ad network and like to spy on users because that's your business model.)

2.) Of course, if these restrictions do not apply to apps using iAd and they will happily transmit personal information to Apple, then that's bad. But the bad thing about it is that Apple itself doesn't respect your privacy with their iAds and not that they don't allow everyone to spy on you.

3.) Where did you find the information that these policies do not apply to iAds. (It's not that I don't believe you but I really would like to know the exact rules for iAds.)

Reply Score: 8

kragil Member since:
2006-01-04

Logic?

Of course they don't apply to Apple. The TOS is between Apple and the dev. Apple is no third party and Iads will of course track every click you do.

Apple controls and stores everything you do on a iNoControl device (Ads, notifications, Itunes, etc.)

Far worse then Google, because Apple usally has your Credit Card number and knows exactly who you are.

Reply Parent Score: 1

Kondor337 Member since:
2006-09-16

Logic? Of course they don't apply to Apple. The TOS is between Apple and the dev.

Sorry, I should have been more clear. It's not really easy for me to write in English. Of course this SDK license itself does not apply to Apple, but Apple could still respect your privacy in the same way even if they're not contractually obligated to do so.

Apple is no third party and Iads will of course track every click you do.

Tracking clicks is no problem at all. The problem is that every user is tracked just by visiting sites (or using apps) that contain ads.

Apple controls and stores everything you do on a iNoControl device (Ads, notifications, Itunes, etc.)
Far worse then Google, because Apple usally has your Credit Card number and knows exactly who you are.

They store everything I do? Notifications? Really? How do you know?

Reply Parent Score: 1

anevilyak Member since:
2005-09-14


Section 3.3.9 is exactly what I would have wished for. Apps may not transmit ANY personal information whatsoever to anyone without my explicit consent.


Except that a) this agreement is between Apple and developers, not developers and you, and b) if you actually read the section, it says they're not allowed to do so without *Apple*'s consent. The user is in no way mentioned.

Reply Parent Score: 3

Kondor337 Member since:
2006-09-16

YOU should read the entire section 3.3.9, not just the little snippet that's concerned with device data.

MY consent, not Apple's.

Reply Parent Score: 1

twitterfire Member since:
2008-09-11

Apps may not transmit ANY personal information whatsoever to anyone without my explicit consent.


Not YOURS, APPLE'S consent. You don't have any goddamn right. Try and read again CAREFULLY.

Reply Parent Score: 2

Kondor337 Member since:
2006-09-16

YOU should read the entire section 3.3.9 CAREFULLY, not just the little snippet that's concerned with device data.

MY consent, not Apple's.

Reply Parent Score: 1

marine6680 Member since:
2010-04-15

1.)Section 3.3.9 is exactly what I would have wished for. Apps may not transmit ANY personal information whatsoever to anyone without my explicit consent.

2.) Of course, if these restrictions do not apply to apps using iAd and they will happily transmit personal information to Apple, then that's bad. But the bad thing about it is that Apple itself doesn't respect your privacy with their iAds and not that they don't allow everyone to spy on you.


OK, you need to re-read that section. In no way does it say these programs can not transmit data without your consent. It just prevents them from doing so without Apple's permission, which Apple will not give most likely. This is not a move to increase privacy for the user, it is to prevent competition with IAd. Apple does not care to protect your privacy, they just want to kill off competition.

Apple has a tight control over their products, under the guise of improving user experience. While that may be a side effect of that control, I do not believe it to be the real reason. I believe the real reason is because Apple can not stand the idea of another company/person making money off of their products, especially if it is in an area that they themselves could easily be doing. "Someone can write a small app that collects ad data and can sit back and rake in money? We can't have that, we should be getting all that free money." I believe the only real reason Apple even allows 3rd parties to develop apps for their products, is because they know that they could never develop/provide the myriad of different apps needed to satisfy all their users needs and desires.

Edited 2010-04-15 19:56 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 3

dharknes Member since:
2009-03-01

OK, you need to re-read that section. In no way does it say these programs can not transmit data without your consent. It just prevents them from doing so without Apple's permission, which Apple will not give most likely. This is not a move to increase privacy for the user, it is to prevent competition with IAd. Apple does not care to protect your privacy, they just want to kill off competition.

Apple has a tight control over their products, under the guise of improving user experience. While that may be a side effect of that control, I do not believe it to be the real reason. I believe the real reason is because Apple can not stand the idea of another company/person making money off of their products, especially if it is in an area that they themselves could easily be doing. "Someone can write a small app that collects ad data and can sit back and rake in money? We can't have that, we should be getting all that free money." I believe the only real reason Apple even allows 3rd parties to develop apps for their products, is because they know that they could never develop/provide the myriad of different apps needed to satisfy all their users needs and desires.


Section 3.3.9
Point 1, I'm allowed to collect and use data only to support my application. Collecting or using data for some other purpose will get me banned. I'm okay with that.

Point 2, I'm allowed to provide or disclose that data to 3rd parties for providing services or functionality for my application but only if I receive express user consent. I'm okay with that.

"You may only provide or disclose User Data to third parties as necessary for providing services or functionality for the Application that collected the User Data, and then only if You receive express user consent."

Maybe I'm miss interrupting the "only if You receive express user consent".

So at this point I can collect anything I need for my application, but I can only provide or disclose that information after I've gotten the user to okay it. I'm okay with that.

Point 3, limits access to Device Data unfortunately this excerpt doesn't define Device Data so we don't know exactly what that is. But I feel it's safe to assume Device Data is not User Data since Apple is differentiating them. So I'm not allowed to collect Device Data and disclose it to a 3rd party for processing or analysis. I'm okay with that.

Point 4, I have to tell users what I'm doing with their data. I'm okay with that.

Point 5, I have to take steps to not loose their data. I'm okay with that.

Two things,
1) I don't see how this prevents me from putting banner ads, either home grown or from other ad networks, in my apps. As long as I don't collect user or device information. If I need to collect user information I first need get their permission and second tell them what I'm using the information for.
2) I don't see how making devs accountable for the information they collect is a bad thing for users.

I don't disagree that Apple is acting in Apple's best interest. Apple is a business trying to squeeze as much money as it can out of the iPhone. They wouldn't be a good company if they were. But that doesn't mean it hurts the end user. Sometimes Apple's best interest is also the user's best interest.

Apple has done some nasty stuff but this is FUD.

Reply Parent Score: 2