Linked by Kroc Camen on Thu 29th Apr 2010 23:04 UTC
Internet Explorer I am almost flabbergasted by the spin and blunt-face upon which this news is delivered. We were just discussing the pot calling the kettle black with Apple / Adobe and now Microsoft have also come out in favour of a closed video format for an open web--IE9's HTML5 video support will allow H264 only. Update Now that the initial shock is over, I've rewritten the article to actually represent news rather than something on Twitter.
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RE[2]: 1-2 Punch
by WereCatf on Thu 29th Apr 2010 23:27 UTC in reply to "RE: 1-2 Punch"
WereCatf
Member since:
2006-02-15

really?

Really??????

Where is the extend? how about the plan to kill H264.

Frankly I think you did not give any thought to the meaning of that phrase.


I'd say you didn't think of it enough. There are various different ways to see it, I see it as: embrace HTML5 and the freedom of it, extend it with H.264, kill off the freedom of it.

Reply Parent Score: 12

RE[3]: 1-2 Punch
by modmans2ndcoming on Thu 29th Apr 2010 23:30 in reply to "RE[2]: 1-2 Punch"
modmans2ndcoming Member since:
2005-11-09

Apple, Google and the W3C are now conspirators with MS?

Again... not much thought.

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[4]: 1-2 Punch
by segedunum on Fri 30th Apr 2010 12:12 in reply to "RE[3]: 1-2 Punch"
segedunum Member since:
2005-07-06

Apple, Google and the W3C are now conspirators with MS?

Where did anyone say that Apple, Google and the W3C are conspirators with Microsoft?

Apple and Microsoft are trying to kill off the freedom of HTML5 by dictating (or thinking that they can dictate) the codec that will effectively be used because they think they control something with IE and Safari.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[3]: 1-2 Punch
by MollyC on Fri 30th Apr 2010 00:29 in reply to "RE[2]: 1-2 Punch"
MollyC Member since:
2006-07-04

Microsoft is just following what the industry is already doing. If they had said that IE9's HTML5 implementation would "only support VC-1 (WMV/WMVHD)" then the complaints would make more sense to me. (Since while VC-1 is an industry standard too, Microsoft is its primary developer (though it does make use of licensed patented tech from others). So Microsoft has closer ties to VC-1. They also helped developed H.264 and have patents to that effect, but they were part of a much larger group in that effort. H.264 isn't a "Microsoft" format, like VC-1 is.)

Back to my original point: The rest of the industry is already going with H.264. Microsoft is following in that. Microsoft doesn't control this. If anyone does, it's Apple.

Theora's nowhere near as good as H.264 (or VC-1 for that matter), according to tests (that I think I've seen cited even by Theora backers here).

Now, I was hoping that IE9 would be neutral and just call the system api to play HTLM5 video, and if the user's computer had the correct codec installed, it would play, if not, then too bad. (That would cover H.264, WMV, MPEG-2, and even DivX, since Windows 7 comes with those codecs preinstalled. The user would have to install Theora himself, or installing IE9 could automatically install it.) But doing that would lead to H.264 as the one and only HTML5 standard anyway because if IE is neutral and the rest of the industry picks H.264, then H.264 wins.

I'd even say that if IE9's HTML5 supported only H.264 AND and Theora, it would lead to H.264 winning in the end, for the same reason.

The only way MS could've helped Theora, and maintiain HTML5's "freedom", was to support Theora and not support H.264. But that would mean supporting the inferior format and starting a war with the rest of the industry that's already going with H.264.

Reply Parent Score: 7

RE[4]: 1-2 Punch
by segedunum on Fri 30th Apr 2010 11:56 in reply to "RE[3]: 1-2 Punch"
segedunum Member since:
2005-07-06

Microsoft is just following what the industry is already doing.

Are they? HTML5 video has not yet been established nor is there any standard format for it. People want to try and enforce a restrictive one, but they are likely to be disappointed.

If they had said that IE9's HTML5 implementation would "only support VC-1 (WMV/WMVHD)" then the complaints would make more sense to me.

That's not going to happen simply because it would be like a butterfly farting. No one would notice because there is sod all useful or interesting on the internet that uses it.

Back to my original point: The rest of the industry is already going with H.264. Microsoft is following in that.

There is currently no standard for HTML5 video and no one has yet gone with anything apart from their personal choices.

Microsoft doesn't control this. If anyone does, it's Apple.

Since Apple have no content to dictate terms then I find that suprising. You seem to be labelling Apple as the 'rest of the industry', which is pretty laughable.

Theora's nowhere near as good as H.264 (or VC-1 for that matter), according to tests (that I think I've seen cited even by Theora backers here).

For internet video then that is entirely subjective. Besides, we'll end up having VP8 on that score so that argument will get non-existent if it isn't already when it comes to internet video.

But doing that would lead to H.264 as the one and only HTML5 standard anyway because if IE is neutral and the rest of the industry picks H.264, then H.264 wins.

If sites like YouTube don't use it then it's irrelevant. You know that as well as I, I suspect. If there's no content for a browser then no one cares.

I'm afraid people who think IE and Safari are somehow relevant in the world of a new web standard where Apple and Microsoft don't create any of the cool new content people actually want are going to be sorely disappointed. No one is going to demand that YouTube supports h.264 so that they can get all of the cool features in their browsers that their friends have got and they haven't. Really, people hate IE enough already as it is.

Edited 2010-04-30 12:09 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2