Linked by Thom Holwerda on Thu 29th Apr 2010 16:59 UTC
Editorial Holier-than-thou, an adjective, meaning "marked by an air of superior piety or morality". Everybody has moments in their life where they get into a "holier-than-thou" attitude, and I think Steve Jobs' open letter regarding Adobe, and Flash in particular, really fits the bill. There are three specific points I want to address to illustrate just how holier-than-thou, hypocritical, and misleading this letter really is.
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Thom seems to be the real hypocrite
by Ronin48 on Fri 30th Apr 2010 15:10 UTC
Ronin48
Member since:
2010-04-30

Thom.

Your editorial is irrelevant. I can easily argue that Jobs is not being hypocritical and holier-than-thou but even if I grant that he is, HE IS STILL CORRECT. You even admit as much. Jobs' overall message and individual points were correct. Who cares if you think he is holier-than-thou or hypocritical?

At the risk of being accused of being holier-than-thou, let me enlighten you further. I'll be more-objective-than-thou.

Carbon:

Apple never wants a Mac version of an application to be inferior to the Windows version. The delay of CS5 to Cocoa was a result of Adobe favoring Windows users and it left Mac users with an inferior Adobe product for Mac. Likewise with Office. Apple responds to this when it happens. Witness the development of iWork Suite (Cocoa) as a response to the slow Office:Mac development. Final Cut Pro is best of breed already and will make it to Cocoa eventually but the fact that it is still 32-bit doesn't put Mac users at a disadvantage. Jobs' point about Adobe's delaying the Cocoa transition was not only about the length of the delay but also about how it put Mac users at a disadvantage. It's really not hypocritical and it is certainly correct.

H.264:

You need to either re-read Job's letter or stop being misleading. NOWHERE in Jobs' letter does he say H.264 is open. He says it is an industry standard. Surely you know the difference. Jobs touts H.264 as being performing better and taxing the battery much less. You are the one being misleading on this topic. Who is the hypocrite again?

iTunes:

Your attacks on iTunes are totally subjective, exaggerated, wrong, and irrelevant. Do you even know that iTunes for Windows is available as 64-bit or were you just lying? Jobs' letter was about Adobe, not iTunes on Windows. Why are you misleading your reader?. Nothing you said about iTunes, even if it were all true (and it's not), would make what Jobs said about Adobe wrong.


Maybe you got confused by Jobs' meaning and intent because English is not your native language. Or maybe you are incapable of critical logical thinking. Or maybe you are being deliberately misleading. Frankly it doesn't matter and you don't matter. Like it or not, Jobs is right about Adobe and Flash.

Reply Score: 1

wargum Member since:
2006-12-15

The delay of CS5 to Cocoa was a result of Adobe favoring Windows users and it left Mac users with an inferior Adobe product for Mac.

Cocoa doesn't necessarily make an application better, it's the possible 64 bitness that matters here. Apple announced 64 bit Carbon for Leopard and included it in their preview developer builds. Companies were already at making theit apps 64 bit compatible. Then, all the sudden, just some months before the release of Leopard, Apple did a 180° move and killed Carbon 64. That's why it took almost everybody so long to release a 64 bit version of their application. Some are still not done.

The facts that the Intel switch was still underway didn't help to speed things up, either. You can't omit this fact if you want to paint an honest picture of the circumstances.

Final Cut Pro is best of breed already and will make it to Cocoa eventually but the fact that it is still 32-bit doesn't put Mac users at a disadvantage.

OK. But still. This is like your seat neighbour in an airplane accusing you with strong language of unnecessary pollution of the atmosphere as a consequence of flying. You would just give him a facepalm and think WTF, and rightly so.

Jobs' point about Adobe's delaying the Cocoa transition was not only about the length of the delay but also about how it put Mac users at a disadvantage.

Apple does the same to their windows customers. All. The. Time.

H.264:

You need to either re-read Job's letter or stop being misleading. NOWHERE in Jobs' letter does he say H.264 is open.

Here is what Jobs says:
"we strongly believe that all standards pertaining to the web should be open"

So what is says that they strongly believe that H.264 is the wrong codec, because it's just an industry standard, not an open standard.

Your attacks on iTunes are totally subjective, exaggerated, wrong, and irrelevant.

Oh really? Had you ever to use it on Windows?

Do you even know that iTunes for Windows is available as 64-bit or were you just lying?

That's wrong and has already been discussed earlier.

Jobs' letter was about Adobe, not iTunes on Windows.

It was about Adobe AND Apple. Apple rages about how Adobe cares about some of their products. Thom only mentioned that Apple is in no way any better. Isn't that fair? Remember, it's the extended version of a facepalm ;)

Or maybe you are being deliberately misleading.

Look in the mirror, all those facts that you left out just to make your arguments seem right...

Frankly it doesn't matter and you don't matter.

You don't matter, I don't matter and Thom knows that he doesn't matter. SO WHAT? I'd rather die with a smile on my face knowing I've always tried my best to be an honest man. Plus: This is the Internet, he just took his right to express how he feels about this. Expressing thoughts matters to people.

Like it or not, Jobs is right about Adobe and Flash.

Thom didn't say Steve Jobs is wrong in every aspect, OK?

Reply Parent Score: 2

Ronin48 Member since:
2010-04-30

Your arguments are delusional, misleading, incorrect, biased, nonsensical, out of context, or a combination of these. Let me simplify the issue further and settle this.

Jobs wrote what he wrote to explain why there will be no Flash on Apple mobile devices. That's ALL he was commenting on and that's all that need be discussed. Discussing other non-related issues (such as "Is Apple hypocritical?") while maybe orgasmic for the likes of you and Thom, ARE SIMPLY NOT RELEVANT as they relate to what Jobs wrote. What Jobs said about Adobe and Flash was both logical and correct. Period.

In terms of whether or not Flash should be on Apple mobile devices, it doesn't matter if Apple is hypocritical (they're not), has a pact with Satan (they don't), or beat their wives (they don't). What matters is that there are many good reasons that Flash should not and will not be on Apple mobile devices. Period.

If you or Thommy want to write a new and separate post on reasons why Apple is hypocritical, go ahead, get out your hand lotion and knock yourself out. But that is a separate discussion and it won't have anything to do with whether or not Flash should be on Apple mobile devices.

The bottom line is that Jobs simply set out to explain why Flash will not be on Apple mobile devices. No matter what you think about Jobs and Apple, what Jobs wrote was absolutely correct. End of discussion.

Reply Parent Score: 1