Linked by Thom Holwerda on Mon 3rd May 2010 22:04 UTC
Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Xubuntu Remember how Mark Shuttleworth justified moving the window titlebar widgets to the left by claiming the space freed up on the right side could now be used for something else? On his blog, Shuttleworth unveiled what, exactly, Ubuntu's plans are: window indicators, or 'windicators'. In a nutshell, it comes down to having a tray area in every window.
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Wow
by darknexus on Mon 3rd May 2010 22:29 UTC
darknexus
Member since:
2008-07-15

Talk about underwhelming. That's what his big idea was? Maybe he should go back to space shuttles and let more competent UI designers take over. His examples don't even make sense. A volume control? Well I don't know what apps he's using, but don't most apps that deal with audio already have a volume control? Rhythmbox, Totem, MPlayer... yup, they've all got volume sliders already. Online/offline indicators? Last I checked, there was one in most messenger's contact list window, not to mention when you right click on the tray icon it already has. Document's saved indicator? Hmm, well most wordprocessors and things like that have that. That's what that little * in front or after the filename means, it means modified but not saved. Filling up a title bar with more widgets is just going to get more confusing.
Oh, that reminds me, his other big brainstorm is to eliminate the tray entirely (notification area in GNOME terms) and completely replace it with that indicator-applet thing. Oh, boy...

Reply Score: 8

RE: Wow
by WereCatf on Tue 4th May 2010 05:37 in reply to "Wow"
WereCatf Member since:
2006-02-15

A volume control? Well I don't know what apps he's using, but don't most apps that deal with audio already have a volume control? Rhythmbox, Totem, MPlayer... yup, they've all got volume sliders already. Online/offline indicators? Last I checked, there was one in most messenger's contact list window, not to mention when you right click on the tray icon it already has.

Well, to be honest, a simple standardized way of handling those would be better than every single application having to develop their own way. A volume control that works _exactly the same_ in every single application that uses audio and is always in the exact same place actually sounds like a terrific idea to me, and heck, it's a lot easier to remember then even for complete newbies!

Already having something that works is in absolutely no way a reason for not trying to make it work even better.

Reply Parent Score: 6

RE[2]: Wow
by r_a_trip on Tue 4th May 2010 14:04 in reply to "RE: Wow"
r_a_trip Member since:
2005-07-06

Already having something that works is in absolutely no way a reason for not trying to make it work even better.

Except I absolutely don't see the "better".

Ooh, let's break 25 years of accumulated muscle memory by placing window buttons left. Then propose to duplicate the system tray a gazillion times in all windows, instead of having just one in a fixed place, neat and organized.

Telling Ubuntu users "STFU, Canonical decides where your window buttons are placed!" was bad enough. I could even have accepted that if the thing on the right side was jaw dropping revolutionary, but... the proposal is one big crapfest of useless clutter, multiplied over all open windows.

Let's just throw in some superfluous "new" items like:

Online / offline -- apps that need this already have developed other accepted methods.

“unsaved” -- Every applications I know pops up a warning dialog if something isn't saved and you click close. If you don't know if something is saved and you want to keep it, just hit ctrl + s. (Or do the equivalent clicky/drooly thingie.)

Progress indicators -- Progress pop-up dialogs have served this purpose well for over 20 years.

“basket” -- Online shopping takes place in a web-page and they already have these indicators. No need to plop it in the windowsdecoration as well.

Sharing -- Collaborative suites have far better methods of signifying this stuff.

Volume -- Every app that needs this, already has this.

It feels like Mr. Shuttleworth is really desperate to "un-Linux" his Ubuntu, so that he can pretend to have a different OS than his co-opetition. I say let him have his play. While he is playing, he is not listening to his users or his upstream. Running roughshod over the people he needs to give Ubuntu critical mass will come back to bite him.

One Apple is more than enough.

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[2]: Wow
by phoenix on Tue 4th May 2010 15:19 in reply to "RE: Wow"
phoenix Member since:
2005-07-11

Well, to be honest, a simple standardized way of handling those would be better than every single application having to develop their own way. A volume control that works _exactly the same_ in every single application that uses audio and is always in the exact same place actually sounds like a terrific idea to me, and heck, it's a lot easier to remember then even for complete newbies!


Ah, so you want something standardised, that works the same across all applications ... which means you don't want it done in each application ... which means you don't want client-side decorations. ;) You want a standardised protocol, where the client just says "I need X with value Y" and let the host handle all the gory details.

Kinda like what happened to the systray/notifications system, which went from client-side (everyone do their own implementation) to host-side (everyone call a standard d-bus setup and let the host handle the rest).

:)

Modifying each and every client app to work with "windicators" is the wrong way to go about doing this.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE: Wow
by UltraZelda64 on Tue 4th May 2010 18:07 in reply to "Wow"
UltraZelda64 Member since:
2006-12-05

Actually, I see an excellent reason for the volume control on each program's window. You know those crappy web pages on big companies' web sites, including movie and (music) band sites? You know--the ones that force you to use Flash, and even worse, have obnoxious sound/music that you have to search for the damn "mute" or "STFU" button somewhere in some crappy GUI? Yeah, those.

Set your browser's application-level volume to minimum, and problem solved. No need to reach for the speakers any time going to those sites. That way, the volume of your music player doesn't get screwed up, because you're only changing the web browser's volume, and the volume is in a logical location--in the browser's title bar. I've been waiting so long for something like this, because unless I'm looking at YouTube or some porn site, I don't want *any* sound. Period.

Before YouTube and Flash video, audio was almost NEVER welcome in the browser, especially those worthless bouncy, flashy, noisy Flash ads. Youtube changed that, but the titlebar volume control would still be useful.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: Wow
by phoenix on Tue 4th May 2010 19:31 in reply to "RE: Wow"
phoenix Member since:
2005-07-11

Set your browser's application-level volume to minimum, and problem solved. No need to reach for the speakers any time going to those sites.


And this is different how from clicking the volume control in the systray, and setting the volume for the web browser?

Especially considering that the GNOME systray is in the top-right corner, right where this windicator volume control would be.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE: Wow
by FakeUser on Tue 4th May 2010 22:00 in reply to "Wow"
FakeUser Member since:
2010-03-02

Did you even care to read Mr. Shuttleworth blog post? All the things you're saying don't make any sense.

Reply Parent Score: 1