Linked by Kroc Camen on Thu 6th May 2010 07:54 UTC
Hardware, Embedded Systems In 2009 ARM showed off prototype netbooks "capable of driving HD content, can surf the web for 8 hours, and will cost round and about 250 USD". Yet still, none have made it to the market. Why do you think this is so? Because ARM signed a deal with Adobe in 2008 to bring Flash and AIR to the ARM architecture, a promise they will finally deliver later this year. And you wonder why Apple won't have Flash on the iPhone when it can hold back an entire product category for two years.
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jabjoe
Member since:
2009-05-06

Yer, I free admit I wasn't noting who wrote what and only noticed the anti-Flash bias. ;-)

I assume you mean Apple by "But neither do we like being told what to think, or see some company with a hidden agenda limit our choices just to increase their own market share and profitability."

I don't think ARM are doing an Apple. They are just saying Flash is a problem for them getting devices to market, and I think that probably is true. A iPhone might be able to get away with it because it's not just a web browser, but devices that are mainly web devices would seam pretty rubbish if they can't access big chunks of the web.

I disagree with Apple on many many things, but not being pro-Flash isn't one of them. Them claiming it's about freedom then being pro-h264, and further locking down the iStore, is just a little hard to swallow though.

Reply Parent Score: 1

fatjoe Member since:
2010-01-12

We seem to agree on all but one point: ARM laptops being delayed because of Adobe? I just don't believe that! I think the delay was due to these
<ul>
1. both ARM and TSMC underestimated the challenges of low-power multi-GHz design.
2. ARM is still experimenting with their GPU line!
3. Intel moved Atom manufacturing to TSMC mostly to delay ARM development (I bet you didn't thought of that one!!)
4. ARM wasted a lot of resources on low-power embedded models: Cortex-M0, M1, M3, M5 and M6.
5. on a tablet/notebook, the CPU/GPU power is a fraction of the LCD power anyway. Manufacturers had to wait for AMOLED to become cheaper.
6. sure, ARM may have been delayed a few weeks due to Flash issues ;)
7. TSMC was switching to a lower node and had as usual allocated a lot of resources for next generation FPGAs (due to their simple structure, memories and FPGAs are always the first to be tested on a new process node)
8. who knows, maybe ARM is busy with the cellphone market and isn't really interested in laptops at the moment...
</ul>

Well ... I could be dead wrong, but at least I do my own thinking ;)

Edited 2010-05-06 11:39 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 3

jabjoe Member since:
2009-05-06

All good points (though I think 6. is months not weeks).
Still crossing my fingers ARM start to take on x86. Without Windows, just don't see why we need x86.

Reply Parent Score: 1

Morty Member since:
2005-07-06

ARM laptops being delayed because of Adobe? I just don't believe that!

Totally agreed, it does not sound plausible. Double so since there already exist a flash version for ARM. It's not optimal, but I doubt hardware manufacturers care if they decide there are money to be made.

I think the delay was due to these

Disagreed, mostly because you seem to missinterpret the nature of ARM. They do not sell processors, they only license IP.

1. both ARM and TSMC underestimated the challenges of low-power multi-GHz design.

High speed ARM SoCs are offered from multiple vendors and sold in high numbers alrady, so the design sounds solid.

2. ARM is still experimenting with their GPU line!

Different vendors pair ARM cores with various GPU cores, the most powerful ones comparable to regular Atom offerings. A common alternative are actually GMA500 or slight variants of it. The solution is already on the market and competitive compared to Atom.

3. Intel moved Atom manufacturing to TSMC mostly to delay ARM development (I bet you didn't thought of that one!!)

I do not think that would affect all the ARM suppliers. Unlikely that Intel could deny all of TI, ST, Freescale, NXP, Samsung, Nvidia, Qualcom, Atmel, Actel, Micrel etc manufacturing capacity.

4. ARM wasted a lot of resources on low-power embedded models: Cortex-M0, M1, M3, M5 and M6.

Those models outsell all of Intels x86 range with a huge margin. And again, ARM does not manufacture anything, TI, ST, Freescale, NXP, Samsung, Nvidia, Qualcom, Atmel, Actel, Micrel etc does. And they have been delivering chips based on those designs for a while now. As is Cortex-A8 and A9 is in the loop, so ARM is already licensing out those designs. So one could stipulate that the needed resources are already spent.

5. on a tablet/notebook, the CPU/GPU power is a fraction of the LCD power anyway.

A fair amount of power goes to the LCD back-lite, but an Atom with accompanying chip-set easily push past the 5W mark so a more efficient SoC can easily give you an extra hour or two(or demand a smaller battery).

Manufacturers had to wait for AMOLED to become cheaper.

Nah, they easily go for the same cheap crap as they use in netbooks.


6. sure, ARM may have been delayed a few weeks due to Flash issues ;)

The manufacturers may put a small delay into launch depending on such external issues as seasonal scheduling(student semester start and the like), service provider wishes(phone companies offering dataplans etc) or a nearly finished Flash. But not to this extent, as time to market counts.


7. TSMC was switching to a lower node and had as usual allocated a lot of resources for next generation FPGAs (due to their simple structure, memories and FPGAs are always the first to be tested on a new process node)

Not all ARM manufactures depend on TSMC.

8. who knows, maybe ARM is busy with the cellphone market and isn't really interested in laptops at the moment...

The suppliers of ARM SoCs want to sell chips, they do not care to much in witch market their chips get used.

The biggest reason for the delay of such devices are the hardware vendors, like Asus, Acer etc, they are not ready to commit to the market segment. They are not confident that the market are economically viable, and to cut into their own netbook market. And the cheap Chinese producers are to busy churning out variants of their Atom based designs, to get as much profit as possible out of it, to spend development resources on competing ARM based designs.

Reply Parent Score: 3