Linked by Kroc Camen on Sat 29th May 2010 20:41 UTC
Apple I've been meaning to write this for some time, and for all the time I delayed the more poignant the point I wanted to make started to become as new news came out further solidifying my angle. When I begun writing this article the iPad had not yet been revealed, iPhone OS 4 was not on the map and Apple had not yet purchased Lala. You've probably just noticed that all of these events in fact point toward Apple embracing the web more and in this article I will point out why this is not the case because I believe Apple's agenda here is similar to something we've already seen in recent history.
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RE: We already have that Technology
by daveak on Sun 30th May 2010 12:23 UTC in reply to "We already have that Technology"
daveak
Member since:
2008-12-29

No one cares on the desktop for one very good reason. There is not a single Java desktop app that doesn't scream out at the top of its voice, "I'm written in Java". Which means that it is slow, eats memory for breakfast, and doesn't fit in with the rest of the desktop within which it is running.

If there is one that doesn't do this, please point it out.

Reply Parent Score: 2

Moochman Member since:
2005-07-06

No one cares on the desktop for one very good reason. There is not a single Java desktop app that doesn't scream out at the top of its voice, "I'm written in Java". Which means that it is slow, eats memory for breakfast, and doesn't fit in with the rest of the desktop within which it is running.

If there is one that doesn't do this, please point it out.


Oh god, seemingly every day I ask myself whether I really should take the effort to counteract this kind of FUD yet again.

How about this: Name one that does do this and try to prove with some semblance of credibility that you have used a Java app within the last decade.

As for ones that don't do this, sure: Eclipse (and by extension Flash Builder and many other development tools), IntelliJ, NetBeans, Matlab, Maple, LimeWire, Azureus/Vuze, Puzzle Pirates (technically a browser game, but this thread was supposedly about plugins so I figured I'd mention it). There are plenty more less well-known examples I could dig up, but I think I've made my point.

Reply Parent Score: 1

daveak Member since:
2008-12-29

The post I replied to mentioned desktop. You have ignored what I stated about java apps. All the apps you list still scream that they are written in Java. This is not FUD, this is user experience based fact.

Reply Parent Score: 2

Timmmm Member since:
2006-07-25

"There is not a single Java desktop app that doesn't scream out at the top of its voice, "I'm written in Java". Which means that it is slow, eats memory for breakfast, and doesn't fit in with the rest of the desktop within which it is running.


How about this: Name one that does do this
"

Easy: Vuze (née Azuereus), Eclipse, Netbeans (though this is one of the better ones). They're the only java apps I commonly use and they are all horribly slow and ugly. The one good (in terms of speed/responsiveness) Java program I've used is Matlab.

Of course, there are slow and bloated C++ apps too, OpenOffice springs to mind, but they seem to be less common. I think that the reason is probably this:

Although it is possible to write efficient Java programs, you can't really do it if you write things in a 'Java' way, i.e. not worrying about memory, using heavy types like Integer, and so on. Consider that when writing Android games, one is advised not to display the FPS, because formatting the string creates a new object each frame! Wtf?!

Fortunately (p)NaCl is language agnostic (unlike JVM). It's also written by google who are pretty bright so hopefully it won't take ages to load like the java plugin.

Reply Parent Score: 1

nt_jerkface Member since:
2009-08-26


As for ones that don't do this, sure: Eclipse (and by extension Flash Builder and many other development tools), IntelliJ, NetBeans, Matlab, Maple, LimeWire, Azureus/Vuze,


OMFG how long has this been the Java desktop example list?

Your platform has serious problems when the star desktop apps have been the same group of IDEs and bittorrent programs for years.

Who would even use swing these days when there is Qt?

Java on the desktop is dead. We had the wake years ago.

Reply Parent Score: 3

Neolander Member since:
2010-03-08

Most of those have average to poor performance and take ages to load. I've used Maple for years, then tried Mathematica, and it feels incredibly faster and snappier in most cases. Mathematica's interface for formatting is arguably better too, but it may be due more to the developers than to the GUI toolkit being used.

Same for Vuze vs KTorrent or µTorrent. Again, performance loss is huge, especially on the interface snapiness area.

Same for matlab. Until it gets usable, on an average computer, I usually have more than enough time to make and drink two cups of coffee...

Reply Parent Score: 2