Linked by Thom Holwerda on Tue 1st Jun 2010 09:42 UTC
Google Google employees have always had a remarkable amount of freedom when it comes to what operating system they wanted to run on company computers - Linux, Windows, Mac OS X, it was all fine. Since the China attacks, however, this has changed: Windows is no longer welcome on Google computers.
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RE[3]: Using Chrome OS
by flynn on Tue 1st Jun 2010 13:01 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Using Chrome OS"
flynn
Member since:
2009-03-19

"Google uses Ubuntu extensively; there are excellent coding tools in Ubuntu.

As of 6months ago, much of Android development required a version of Eclipse that's more recent than the latest copy in Ubuntu's software repositories.

This meant that Ubuntu users had to manually download and install Eclipse - ie configure their coding tools from sources outside of Canonical's distros.
"
I wonder why more people aren't using rolling-release distros, where things like this never happen.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[4]: Using Chrome OS
by Neolander on Tue 1st Jun 2010 13:22 in reply to "RE[3]: Using Chrome OS"
Neolander Member since:
2010-03-08

I wonder why more people aren't using rolling-release distros, where things like this never happen.

Because updates only endure little stress-testing in order to ship faster, so that a single update can break everything.

As an example, I stopped using Arch Linux because one day, they pushed a major update of packman, the package manager itself, in the "stable" repo with insuficient testing, and this totally broke package management on my system. I couldn't install a single package, not even the packman bugfix release that was delivered some weeks later.

Rolling release is not good for everyone, because it forces people to think and read changelogs before installing updates. Most people don't want that, they just want to fix security holes, and new stuff will wait until they decide to try out the newest release of their distro of choice.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[5]: Using Chrome OS
by Damnshock on Tue 1st Jun 2010 13:41 in reply to "RE[4]: Using Chrome OS"
Damnshock Member since:
2006-09-15

Well, it could be a "rolling release". I mean, get regular apps updates but not the core system apps, like pacman ;)

Wouldn't that be great?

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[4]: Using Chrome OS
by MacMan on Tue 1st Jun 2010 13:28 in reply to "RE[3]: Using Chrome OS"
MacMan Member since:
2006-11-19

First off, before the flames start, I'd like to say that I love Linux, and use it everyday.

Software distribution is however SOOO FUNDAMENTALLY FLAWED in Linux. Why do I have to wait for the distro packagers to deliver an app. Why can't I just grab a .app like OSX and JUST RUN IT?????

The .app in OSX is really a directory structure, which houses the executable, any libraries, an icon, config files, etc..., similar to a java jar.

It would be so freaking simple to have Gnome or KDE support such a system.

I've "installed" a newer version of Eclipse in Ubuntu that what came with the distro, and compared with OSX, its a nightmare. First, stick it somewhere, like /opt, get all the permissions straight, then starts the nightmare with editing .desktop entries to give me a menu item, or a desktop icon. This is crazy.

A user should be able to grap a .app from anywhere, stick it anywhere on their file system, and run it, or drag it to the desktop or toolbar to automatically create a launcher for it.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[5]: Using Chrome OS
by TechGeek on Tue 1st Jun 2010 14:26 in reply to "RE[4]: Using Chrome OS"
TechGeek Member since:
2006-01-14

You can. Its called precompiled software. It may or may not run though. With Macs, you have a single platform target. With Linux, you have many targets. So you do one of two things. Compile everything you install from source, like Gentoo. Or you have packages. Even Windows has different packages. There are less options, but 32/64 and specific OS means Windows devs have to compile multiple apps or just not support old OS's like Win2k, 98.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[5]: Using Chrome OS
by MattPie on Tue 1st Jun 2010 14:58 in reply to "RE[4]: Using Chrome OS"
MattPie Member since:
2006-04-18

Software distribution is however SOOO FUNDAMENTALLY FLAWED in Linux. Why do I have to wait for the distro packagers to deliver an app. Why can't I just grab a .app like OSX and JUST RUN IT?????

The .app in OSX is really a directory structure, which houses the executable, any libraries, an icon, config files, etc..., similar to a java jar.


Besides the technical difficulty of creating one 'package' (.app in Mac-speak) that works everywhere in Linux, how do you do updates? What happens when one of those libraries in the .app as a security bug?

Let's say a fictitious libPDF (for fun) finds out there's a bug that needs to be fixed. All the developers/vendors that use libPDF in their .app now have to update their version and deploy a new .app for people to use, plus notify their users that it's available. Then, you have to trust that the users are actually paying attention and will download the new version of the .app. Repeat for each app that uses libPDF. Plus, since the libraries are in the .app, you may end up with 20 different copies of libPDF in .apps, many likely the same version (wasted disk).

The repository system isn't perfect by any means, but .app isn't either. Apple chose compatibility over disk space and ease of updates. It's a design decision.

There are groups that have done similar things for Linux, I believe, just none of them have caught on with a major distro.

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[5]: Using Chrome OS
by Hiawatha on Tue 1st Jun 2010 15:01 in reply to "RE[4]: Using Chrome OS"
Hiawatha Member since:
2005-08-29

Because all MacOS X developers create a package for MacOS X, while only a few Linux developers create a package for each distribution (because that's a lot of sucky work). They just publish the source code, so you can compile (and package) it for your distribution yourself.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[5]: Using Chrome OS
by siride on Tue 1st Jun 2010 15:20 in reply to "RE[4]: Using Chrome OS"
siride Member since:
2006-01-02

You can always download RPMs and DEBs from any website and install the software just like you would in Windows (albeit without an installer asking you thirty questions about where and how to install). You can also subscribe the repositories that have more up-to-date versions of software or beta/testing versions. And those will/can be auto-updated, so you don't have to hunt around to each non-distro-release piece of software that you have (unlike Windows and Mac OS X where every 3rd party program has its own wacko updater).

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[5]: Using Chrome OS
by acobar on Tue 1st Jun 2010 15:22 in reply to "RE[4]: Using Chrome OS"
acobar Member since:
2005-11-15

Besides good reasons people repeat again and again, and all talking about diversity on libraries and file system structure on Linux world (options for them also), I will list some to you:

* Sharing libraries - it makes a program starts faster if some libraries are already loaded and make the app uses less memory on this case - in macs most developers target the base system libraries and dump whatever they may need inside the app;

* Libraries updates means that an app may benefit from fixes without being recompiled/reinstalled, i.e., they have a wide effect (on security also);

* Optimization for your architecture.

It is possible to create a static app for linux (you will find some), but most people do not care that much as they may lose what was cited.

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[5]: Using Chrome OS
by phoenix on Tue 1st Jun 2010 16:15 in reply to "RE[4]: Using Chrome OS"
phoenix Member since:
2005-07-11

You should give PC-BSD a try. It uses its own PBI format for app installs, which is similar in concept to MacOS X .app bundles. Plus, it's build on top of FreeBSD, so you don't have to deal with Linux. ;)

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[5]: Using Chrome OS
by woegjiub on Wed 2nd Jun 2010 02:26 in reply to "RE[4]: Using Chrome OS"
woegjiub Member since:
2008-11-25

That is actually very easy.

You simply download a .deb file, click on it, and it installs in the KDE or gnome desktops on a debian-based system.

Because Ubuntu is far more extensively used than any other distro, you have sites like getdeb, which allow you to do just that.

Personally, I prefer adding third party PPA repos; I then get updates as the developers make them.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[5]: Using Chrome OS
by bert64 on Wed 2nd Jun 2010 20:54 in reply to "RE[4]: Using Chrome OS"
bert64 Member since:
2007-04-23

There is nothing stopping you from downloading a binary and running it, however it is this system that is flawed... A package manager is hugely superior, and this is why most linux users would never even consider downloading and running software by hand...

How do you ensure that your manually installed apps are up to date? Do you really want each app running its own update program in the background?
How do you ensure that the site you download from is legitimate? Sounds like extra work...
Similarly, even locating the app in the first place is extra unnecessary work...

A package manager is just better, apple operate something similar with the iphone app store and users love it... The linux system has all the benefits of the app store and none of the downsides.

Reply Parent Score: 3