Linked by Thom Holwerda on Fri 4th Jun 2010 15:36 UTC
Internet & Networking Earlier this week, Apple launched a HTML5 Showcase page, displaying several uses for HTML5 and related technologies. However, it turns out that Apple is using trickery to block out browsers other than Safari, with the end result that browsers with better support for web standards than Safari can't access the demos.
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Still unclear
by Kilogramm on Fri 4th Jun 2010 16:17 UTC
Kilogramm
Member since:
2010-05-04

It is still unclear how good HTML5 implementations will be compared to Flash and Silverlight. Browsers have been relatively slow at rendering content so far.

Everybody complains about Flash, but we don't know yet how well comparable HTML content will be rendered. I would say HTML/CSS/JS combo is going to be much worse performance wise than dedicated RIA platforms.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Still unclear
by Kroc on Fri 4th Jun 2010 16:32 in reply to "Still unclear"
Kroc Member since:
2005-11-10

It does not matter one bit how good Flash and Silverlight are.

Tell me, why did Google go through all the trouble of compiling Java code into an insane mess of HTML and JavaScript—full of hacks for faulty browsers—instead of just serving users a Java app? Or Flash? Or Adobe AIR? Or Silverlight? All those technologies are far more capable than HTML!

It doesn’t matter how much better any of those technologies are, they are not the web. They do not evolve in the same way and they have all failed in solving _basic_ accessibility and the right for the user to decide how they want to view their page according to their requirements.

The web is simply better for _users_. Not for ad-men and designers who like to over do the lensflare.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: Still unclear
by yoshi314@gmail.com on Fri 4th Jun 2010 16:44 in reply to "RE: Still unclear"
yoshi314@gmail.com Member since:
2009-12-14

--comment in a wrong place

Edited 2010-06-04 16:45 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[2]: Still unclear
by Kilogramm on Fri 4th Jun 2010 16:58 in reply to "RE: Still unclear"
Kilogramm Member since:
2010-05-04

The web is the totality of all things, not only those approved by the W3C. If we stuck only to the W3C we would not have YouTube, Facebook, Hulu.

Let the users decide what is best. I myself prefer things that first of all work, and second of all work well. W3C politics is very low on my and many people's lists of priorities.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[2]: Still unclear
by Nelson on Fri 4th Jun 2010 18:21 in reply to "RE: Still unclear"
Nelson Member since:
2005-11-29

Yes it does. The needs of people are real, despite the fact that HTML5 and other open standards offerings have no caught up. The lack of progress on that front does not make the problems of everyday users disappear.

HTML5 or not, people are going to want RIAs, and even HTML5 if implemented perfectly in every browser, would not come close to offering the level of productivity Silverlight does.

We're holding back progress for the sake of ubiquity, and it's laughable how far ahead Silverlight is for RIAs and video.

The video tag will never gain critical mass without support for a protected path, there's just no way you're going to convince content providers to do so.

I think the browser vendors could be more productive in getting HTML5 interactive demos running above a few frames a second before trashing RIA platforms like Silverlight and AIR (Yes, even AIR, and AIR sucks.)

HTML5 is gaining ubiquity in name only. The place where HTML5 is most prevalent, an entire mobile thicket of websites coded for the iPhone using -webkit- extensions. Is that really the kind of same markup you want? You're creating the same situation IE created for itself years ago.

It does matter how much faster Silverlight is (dramatically faster, in case you didn't know), at least to pragmatic employers who want an RIA which isn't constrained by the ridiculous monolithic processes at the W3C.

The issue of accessibility was tackled in Silverlight.. since Silverlight 2..

The UI Automation framework has built in support for screen readers. Silverlight also supports robust keyboard navigation capabilities.

Silverlight supports browser zooming (which is vector based and works better than even Html content).

For high contrast you can either write your own style or apply a pixel shader to the screen (as of SL3).

A lot of the so called issues with Silverlight are fabricated. Plain and simple

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[2]: Still unclear
by nt_jerkface on Fri 4th Jun 2010 20:04 in reply to "RE: Still unclear"
nt_jerkface Member since:
2009-08-26


Tell me, why did Google go through all the trouble of compiling Java code into an insane mess of HTML and JavaScript—full of hacks for faulty browsers—instead of just serving users a Java app? Or Flash? Or Adobe AIR? Or Silverlight? All those technologies are far more capable than HTML!


They also have billions in the bank so funding a massive AJAX project without regard for productivity is not a problem for them.

But small and medium developers with experience in Adobe technologies and .net are not going jump on the javascript bandwagon unless forced.

Flash has a 97% install base, good luck explaining to Flash developers as to why they should abandon their experience for a smaller user base.


It doesn’t matter how much better any of those technologies are, they are not the web.


You don't have the authority to define what the web is.


They do not evolve in the same way and they have all failed in solving _basic_ accessibility and the right for the user to decide how they want to view their page according to their requirements.


That is a right you have declared in your head, not one that actually exists as part of some internet charter.

If you don't like the services being offered through Flash or any other proprietary technology then don't use it. Flash provides a technology medium that both producers and users find value in. Online games especially make use of Flash and if you have such a problem with it then start coding those Javascript alternatives. Have fun with that.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE: Still unclear
by aliquis on Fri 4th Jun 2010 17:14 in reply to "Still unclear"
aliquis Member since:
2005-07-23

I don't need or want the advanced content with lots of anims, waiting, and shit anyway.

So not an issue really ..

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[2]: Still unclear
by Nelson on Fri 4th Jun 2010 18:40 in reply to "RE: Still unclear"
Nelson Member since:
2005-11-29

I don't need or want the advanced content with lots of anims, waiting, and shit anyway.

So not an issue really ..


Well, this is a case of people talking out of both sides of their mouth. I'm not necessarily saying you, but people will applaud what Html5, Css3, Svg, Canvas, et all do in these kind of showcases.. then as soon as someone points it out how much more efficient Silverlight is and has been at doing the same thing, they dismiss it as unnecessary.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE: Still unclear
by maxwell on Fri 4th Jun 2010 23:06 in reply to "Still unclear"
maxwell Member since:
2009-03-23

From my experience, Midori and the latest beta of the Opera browser are pretty fast!

Reply Parent Score: 1