Linked by Thom Holwerda on Fri 4th Jun 2010 15:36 UTC
Internet & Networking Earlier this week, Apple launched a HTML5 Showcase page, displaying several uses for HTML5 and related technologies. However, it turns out that Apple is using trickery to block out browsers other than Safari, with the end result that browsers with better support for web standards than Safari can't access the demos.
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Overblown
by earksiinni on Fri 4th Jun 2010 16:34 UTC
earksiinni
Member since:
2009-03-27

Apple is using trickery to block out browsers other than Safari


Here's a direct quote from Apple's showcase page about their intentions:

The demos below show how the latest version of Apple’s Safari web browser, new Macs, and new Apple mobile devices all support the capabilities of HTML5, CSS3, and JavaScript. Not all browsers offer this support. But soon other modern browsers will take advantage of these same web standards — and the amazing things they enable web designers to do.


I'm no Apple apologist or fanboy, but I think calling browser sniffing "trickery" is going too far considering that they're being pretty transparent about the page's raison d'etre, which is explicitly to "show how the latest version of Apple’s Safari web browser...[supports] the capabilities of HTML5, CSS3, and JavaScript." Heck, they even gave a half-shout out to the other side when they wrote "Not all browsers offer this support", implying that there are some browsers that do (yes, Apple's glaring bias against eLinks, which has had JavaScript support for some time now, also makes me steaming mad!!)

What really makes me feel like the "trickery" comment is unjustified, however, is that when you click on the demo links it says very clearly that they need you to use Safari. That's miles ahead of other websites that block unsupported yet capable browsers without any kind of explanation at all. They're upfront about their chicanery =).

Reply Score: 4

RE: Overblown
by yoshi314@gmail.com on Fri 4th Jun 2010 16:45 in reply to "Overblown"
yoshi314@gmail.com Member since:
2009-12-14

"What really makes me feel like the "trickery" comment is unjustified, however, is that when you click on the demo links it says very clearly that they need you to use Safari. That's miles ahead of other websites that block unsupported yet capable browsers without any kind of explanation at all. They're upfront about their chicanery =). "

the lie is that you don't really need safari to properly render that page. i bet most webkit based browsers would display it the right way. it makes an impression as if safari is the only browser that can do it. and obviously, linux is not included ;)

and by doing it this way you cannot compare the rendering to alternate browsers.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[2]: Overblown
by earksiinni on Fri 4th Jun 2010 16:59 in reply to "RE: Overblown"
earksiinni Member since:
2009-03-27

the lie is that you don't really need safari to properly render that page. i bet most webkit based browsers would display it the right way.


Agreed. I'm not saying that Apple is a white sheep, I'm just saying that they're not really trying to pull the wool over anyone's eyes. Now, if that occurs as a side effect, I don't think they'll object =).

it makes an impression as if safari is the only browser that can do it.


I'm not so sure about this. Anyone who is tech savvy enough to realize what Apple has done will also be knowledgeable enough to know that Chrome/other WebKit browsers can do the same thing. For that matter, if you're that tech savvy, you probably think that this page is meant to be an HTML5 showcase for the purpose of showcasing the HTML5 web standard, because HTML5 is what you care about. On the other hand, Apple is very clear about this page's purpose: it is an HTML5 showcase meant to showcase Safari's support for HTML5. That's probably what the "average" user comes away with, since that's what's written.

In other words, I'm questioning the premise of Haavard's post and this blog's coverage. I don't think this was meant to be an HTML5 demo at all; it is explicitly a Safari demo. Apple's loud branding of HTML5 all over the page doesn't strike me as them saying "Come check out this cool new open web standard!" Rather, it screams, "We support HTML5, and look at how realistic an option replacing Flash with HTML5 is when you use Apple technology!"

DISCLAIMER: I don't own a single piece of Apple hardware or software other than my old Mac SE running System 6.

Edit: mangled quotation block

Edited 2010-06-04 17:00 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: Overblown
by Moochman on Sat 5th Jun 2010 13:35 in reply to "RE: Overblown"
Moochman Member since:
2005-07-06

the lie is that you don't really need safari to properly render that page. i bet most webkit based browsers would display it the right way.


Exactly. And not even just WebKit browsers--there's a decent chance Firefox would do just fine as well. Google also has this kind of site--they call it "Chrome Experiments"

http://www.chromeexperiments.com/

...and most of them run just fine in Firefox. Plus they allow anyone to submit stuff themselves.

Just goes to show the difference in approach between Google and Apple. I know which one I prefer.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE: Overblown
by PresentIt on Fri 4th Jun 2010 17:13 in reply to "Overblown"
PresentIt Member since:
2010-02-10

Here's a direct quote from Apple's showcase page about their intentions:


They are implying that you need Safari if you want HTML5 capabilities in your browser. And they aren't even testing any HTML5 (well, a couple of things).

Heck, they even gave a half-shout out to the other side when they wrote "Not all browsers offer this support", implying that there are some browsers that do

No, they are implying that only Safari does, therefore use Safari, and Apple rocks!

when you click on the demo links it says very clearly that they need you to use Safari

...implying that you need Safari to view HTML5 content.

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[2]: Overblown
by earksiinni on Fri 4th Jun 2010 17:29 in reply to "RE: Overblown"
earksiinni Member since:
2009-03-27

I'm not sure where you're getting your evidence from. How does saying "The demos below show how the latest version of Apple’s Safari web browser, new Macs, and new Apple mobile devices all support the capabilities of HTML5, CSS3, and JavaScript" in any way imply that Safari is the only browser that supports HTML5? That's a false inference.

Same for "Not all browsers offer this support". They aren't saying "Only Safari offers this support" or "No other browsers offer this support". I think they're being clear: HTML5 is an emerging standard, and Safari is one of the browsers that supports it.

Furthermore, how can people say that Apple's showcase page doesn't test HTML5 at all? A gross exaggeration. I only have a Linux machine, so I can't test the page myself, but I was under the impression that it does use HTML5 tags?

Really, the more I think about it, the more I feel that this blog post is more about anti-Apple FUD (YES, I said it! May the flame wars begin!) than actually reading what was written on the page. I can't stand Apple's controlling mentality any more than the next techie, but the editorial spin that's been placed on this "news item" (if it can be called that) is simply off.

EDIT: From the other comments, I see now that Apple has used WebKit-specific tags. Epic fail. But that still doesn't take away from my main point, which is that this showcase page is not about HTML5 but about Safari, nor for that matter does using WebKit-specific tags mean that the page doesn't test HTML5 rendering capability (for Safari).

Edited 2010-06-04 17:33 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE: Overblown
by mrhasbean on Fri 4th Jun 2010 21:55 in reply to "Overblown"
mrhasbean Member since:
2006-04-03

I'm no Apple apologist or fanboy, but I think calling browser sniffing "trickery" is going too far considering that they're being pretty transparent about the page's raison d'etre, which is explicitly to "show how the latest version of Apple’s Safari web browser...[supports] the capabilities of HTML5, CSS3, and JavaScript." Heck, they even gave a half-shout out to the other side when they wrote "Not all browsers offer this support", implying that there are some browsers that do (yes, Apple's glaring bias against eLinks, which has had JavaScript support for some time now, also makes me steaming mad!!)

What really makes me feel like the "trickery" comment is unjustified, however, is that when you click on the demo links it says very clearly that they need you to use Safari. That's miles ahead of other websites that block unsupported yet capable browsers without any kind of explanation at all. They're upfront about their chicanery =).


But this is ALWAYS the case, as I commented the other day. And again I will be called a fanboy for pointing this out, but it's a fact, Apple ALWAYS disclose their supposed underhanded or draconic practices UP FRONT, unlike the likes of Google who never disclose them AT ALL. Apple spent their time, resources, money to set up a demo for THEIR browser and they get labelled yet again by imbeciles who think anything Apple do should be "for the good of humanity". News Flash! THEY ARE A BUSINESS!!! They have every right to promote THEIR products. Build a fracking bridge and get over it people, ffs.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[2]: Overblown
by NeoX on Sat 5th Jun 2010 18:09 in reply to "RE: Overblown"
NeoX Member since:
2006-02-19

Thank You, and well said. It does get really old reading all the Anti-Apple FUD here. I still do not see the big deal of what Apple did with this showcase page. They do use HTML5, just look at the source. It is for Apple's browsers, read the description.

What the editor thinks Apple "did" certainly doesn't warrant the headline of this article, nor the article itself with all the judgmental conclusions.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE: Overblown
by NathanHill on Fri 4th Jun 2010 23:02 in reply to "Overblown"
NathanHill Member since:
2006-10-06

I agree with you.

For one thing, the demos on the site are pretty darn cool. This should be an exciting thing for anyone on the fence about HTML5. Sure, the examples are Webkit/Safari oriented, but with such an emphasis shifting to Webkit browsers and the iPhone market, they give great examples of cool applications and features you could use on your website to target those audiences.

Everybody involved and supportive of HTML5 needs to do this, to show their base just what HTML5 means for the future and present of the web. Especially Firefox.

Despite the idea that HTML5 is going to be some universal standard, different browsers are going to seek different strategies in the implementation and rendering of HTML5.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[2]: Overblown
by Neolander on Sat 5th Jun 2010 06:43 in reply to "RE: Overblown"
Neolander Member since:
2010-03-08

Despite the idea that HTML5 is going to be some universal standard, different browsers are going to seek different strategies in the implementation and rendering of HTML5.

*shocked*

Do you realize that what you're predicting here is the come-back of the Netscape vs IE era ? *shivers*

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE: Overblown
by Lorin on Sat 5th Jun 2010 00:12 in reply to "Overblown"
Lorin Member since:
2010-04-06

Still no valid reason to go through the trouble of blocking every other browser, just plain bad sportsmanship.

Reply Parent Score: 2