Linked by Thom Holwerda on Fri 4th Jun 2010 15:36 UTC
Internet & Networking Earlier this week, Apple launched a HTML5 Showcase page, displaying several uses for HTML5 and related technologies. However, it turns out that Apple is using trickery to block out browsers other than Safari, with the end result that browsers with better support for web standards than Safari can't access the demos.
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RE[7]: Still unclear
by Moochman on Sat 5th Jun 2010 09:52 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Still unclear"
Moochman
Member since:
2005-07-06

Silverlight is more than a browser technology, and as it, and WPF converge, it will emerge as the true cross platform programming solution.


Silverlight doesn't offer anything that Flash doesn't. In fact Flash has arguably better support for native apps than Silverlight, since with AIR you can with zero effort create cross-platform binaries for Windows, Mac and Linux. You might argue that for certain use cases Microsoft's programming tools are more capable, but Adobe also has the edge when it comes to design tools, so I'd call it a draw.

Flash however is available on far more platforms than Silverlight and and is more open than Silverlight--open spec and to some extent (Flex) open source. Yet look how much heat it is getting, with Adobe already planning for a long-term transition plan to HTML5.

Will Silverlight support on the web grow before it dies out? Maybe. But as a web technology, it will eventually die out, of that you can be sure.

(barring a miraculous change of heart by Microsoft to standardize and open-source it... ;) )

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[8]: Still unclear
by Nelson on Sat 5th Jun 2010 21:30 in reply to "RE[7]: Still unclear"
Nelson Member since:
2005-11-29


Silverlight doesn't offer anything that Flash doesn't. In fact Flash has arguably better support for native apps than Silverlight, since with AIR you can with zero effort create cross-platform binaries for Windows, Mac and Linux.


Uh, how about a coherent programming model. Flash is all over the place. JITed C# is leaps and bounds faster than AS at computation.

A set of standard LOB controls (charts, datagrids, et all), a variety of options for animations: timeline, keyframed, with easing operations and acceleration on the GPU using bitmap caching.

Maybe once upon a time AIR might have held some advantages, but with SL4 Silverlight got Full Trust, Printing, Drag and Drop, and Notifications .. all once checkmarks in AIRs bracket... but no more.

Now the programming, tooling, and performance superiority of Silverlight triumphs over AIR.

AIR is all over the place. It's a mash of different technologies, you can go the web route, you can go the flash route, or you can do a combination of both. There's no coherence.


You might argue that for certain use cases Microsoft's programming tools are more capable, but Adobe also has the edge when it comes to design tools, so I'd call it a draw.


Sorry the Expression Suite and Visual Studio absolutely dominate over any offering that Adobe has in tooling. In pure profiling and debugging tooling, it's not even close.


Flash however is available on far more platforms than Silverlight and and is more open than Silverlight--open spec and to some extent (Flex) open source. Yet look how much heat it is getting, with Adobe already planning for a long-term transition plan to HTML5.


XAML, C#, and the CLI are ECMA standards.


Will Silverlight support on the web grow before it dies out? Maybe. But as a web technology, it will eventually die out, of that you can be sure.

(barring a miraculous change of heart by Microsoft to standardize and open-source it... ;) )


You can standardize it and survive, open sourcing something is not a necessity for success. Perhaps in your dream world, but certainly not in the real world.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[9]: Still unclear
by ptmb on Sat 5th Jun 2010 22:18 in reply to "RE[8]: Still unclear"
ptmb Member since:
2010-05-21

Maybe once upon a time AIR might have held some advantages, but with SL4 Silverlight got Full Trust, Printing, Drag and Drop, and Notifications .. all once checkmarks in AIRs bracket... but no more.


You do know that Moonlight (Silverlight for Linux) just cached up with version 2 and you are already talking about Silverlight 4...

You can standardize it and survive, open sourcing something is not a necessity for success. Perhaps in your dream world, but certainly not in the real world.


You do know that the web was made so the user is the one in control. If it was not, as Kroc once said (I think, don't quote me), it would be binary.

Open Sourcing isn't necessary for success on the industrial market perhaps, but it is necessary so people can create content freely.

If a standard is closed users will be more afraid of using it under the risk of problems (lawstuits due to license violation for example), and if there are no users using a standard it doesn't survive.

Edited 2010-06-05 22:22 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[9]: Still unclear
by Moochman on Sun 6th Jun 2010 11:04 in reply to "RE[8]: Still unclear"
Moochman Member since:
2005-07-06

A set of standard LOB controls (charts, datagrids, et all), a variety of options for animations: timeline, keyframed, with easing operations and acceleration on the GPU using bitmap caching.

Flex has all of that.

Maybe once upon a time AIR might have held some advantages, but with SL4 Silverlight got Full Trust, Printing, Drag and Drop, and Notifications .. all once checkmarks in AIRs bracket... but no more.

Except that Silverlight still doesn't have a built-in option to package the program up as a cross-platform binary. The closest thing is "install to desktop" but for that, you first need to open the app in a browser. AIR wins again.

AIR is all over the place. It's a mash of different technologies, you can go the web route, you can go the flash route, or you can do a combination of both. There's no coherence.

On the contrary, that is one of the benefits of AIR. You can package your web app up even if parts of it are HTML-based.

Sorry the Expression Suite and Visual Studio absolutely dominate over any offering that Adobe has in tooling. In pure profiling and debugging tooling, it's not even close.

In pure visual design and designer-friendliness, Adobe wins as it lets you use Photoshop, Illustrator or Fireworks and export the results with 100% fidelity to Flash-native FXG usable in any Flash or Flex application.

I won't deny that Silverlight is a very nice platform. However, the Flash/AIR runtimes are on more OSes than Silverlight and Moonlight combined, and in order to target them I can develop the apps from the comfort of my Mac and/or Linux machine. At the moment, it is a far more cross-platform solution and that gives it a huge advantage that (like it or not) outweighs any technical deficiencies.

Edited 2010-06-06 11:12 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2