Linked by lopisaur on Fri 25th Jun 2010 22:21 UTC
Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Xubuntu Based upon a recent email to the X.Org developers' mailing list, Canonical is nearing the point of one of their goals for Ubuntu 10.10 of a rootless X Server, or being able to run the X.Org Server without root privileges.
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RE[2]: Big deal...
by Toad on Sat 26th Jun 2010 09:43 UTC in reply to "RE: Big deal..."
Toad
Member since:
2005-11-27

Replacing X with something new would be very welcomed by me. I'm a GUI toolkit and desktop application developer. X has the worst performance of the big three (OSX, Windows, X) - even a relatively new project like Haiku seems to have better graphics performance than X.

I hope one of the big players like IBM could start such a project. Many individual developers have tried, but those projects very quickly get discarded.


An Redhat X employee is developing an lightweight alternative - Wayland http://groups.google.com/group/wayland-display-server

The good news is that he has knowledge about x, because he works with it, whats good and what's bad. And more, with his Stack its possible to run an X-server on top for application that is dependent on X. More good news is that Wayland uses the new driver infrastructure that is also used by X. These drivers exist as I understood for ATI and Nvidia, but sadly not for Intel.

I think there are already proof of concept integration with GTK+ running on top of Wayland.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[3]: Big deal...
by Zifre on Sat 26th Jun 2010 14:29 in reply to "RE[2]: Big deal..."
Zifre Member since:
2009-10-04

The good news is that he has knowledge about x, because he works with it, whats good and what's bad.

I'm just going to say that I think Wayland also has some design issues. The main one is pushing too much windows management into the clients. The plan is that things like window moving and even wobbly windows would be implemented in the client. To me this is a clear layering violation. It also makes it way harder to do things like tiling window managers.

Personally, I am working on my own windowing system like Wayland, mainly as a proof of concept for how I think window management and input should be done. I think Wayland has a much greater chance of actually becoming the standard Linux windowing system though.

And more, with his Stack its possible to run an X-server on top for application that is dependent on X.

That's possible, but you would actually almost never do that. Almost all apps use Gtk+ or Qt, which would simply be ported to run on Wayland. If for some reason that doesn't work, you would run a rootless X server like Xming for Windows, so that the apps would properly integrate with the Wayland desktop, much like X11 on Mac OS X. (Note that this article really should not say "rootless", because that has a very different meaning in X.)

These drivers exist as I understood for ATI and Nvidia, but sadly not for Intel.

Nope, you've got that completely backwards. The drivers exist for Intel. ATI would work with a few small patches. NVIDIA's binary drivers will probably never work with it, but the Nouveau drivers would also work with a few small patches.

I think there are already proof of concept integration with GTK+ running on top of Wayland.

Nope. That's also backwards. I think Qt is much closer to being able to run on Wayland (especially with acceleration) than Gtk+ is.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[4]: Big deal...
by Toad on Sun 27th Jun 2010 21:19 in reply to "RE[3]: Big deal..."
Toad Member since:
2005-11-27

Thank you for the information, I use Linux too lite (working with .net/Windows) but I am interested in Linux, and been able to introduce Linux/GPL into the company I work for. So now we use a Debian Linux server and open software such as Subversion/Bugzilla. X-windows works, but I haven't been too impressed with it, and as system architect I know that its after you made a system and used it, you will find all shortcomings, and much has happened the last 20 years that the architects of X-window protocol couldn't predict.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[3]: Big deal...
by ggeldenhuys on Tue 29th Jun 2010 19:47 in reply to "RE[2]: Big deal..."
ggeldenhuys Member since:
2006-11-13

An Redhat X employee is developing an lightweight alternative - Wayland http://groups.google.com/group/wayland-display-server

I haven't heard of that one yet, but there are a few X-replacement prototypes available on the net. Y being one of them (very unoriginal name though <smile>). Some have put a lot of research in them.

The major obstacle is obviously convincing GTK and KDE (or Qt rather) to support the new windowing system. That way existing GTK and KDE and Qt apps should be able to move with relative ease.

The other question raised is should the replacement windowing system include a "default" widgetset as well.

Reply Parent Score: 1