Linked by Kroc Camen on Sat 26th Jun 2010 10:48 UTC
Internet Explorer Microsoft have released IE9 Platform Preview 3, an application that gives developers access to the IE9 rendering engine (it's not a full browser). In this update they have added hardware accelerated HTML5 Video, Canvas, Fonts (using WOFF) and big improvements in JavaScript with ES5, DOM Traversal, L2 and L3 events and 83/100 Acid3 score. It sits between Firefox and Chrome 6 on JavaScript speed, but outperforms every browser in real tests.
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RE[7]: Real tests
by lemur2 on Sun 27th Jun 2010 10:49 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Real tests"
lemur2
Member since:
2007-02-17

"However, just the API has landed to do this on Windows Vista and Windows 7. It's called Direct2D.


If I remember reading an article by a Microsoft developer - one of the questions I asked was regarding whether Microsoft could/would port GDI to Direct2D/DirectWrite so that GDI ran on top and merely relayed GDI calls through to Direct2D/DirectWrite. The reasoning he provided pretty much came down to two reasons; firstly they had limited time and would have loved to do it. Secondly the other problem is that it would have been very complex and very messy when one considers all the possibly variables one has to take into account.

I hope that with Windows 8 that full Direct2D and DirectWrite acceleration will come to the desktop but I have a feeling that that the grandparent (lemur2) to this thread is simply grasping at straws to justify his hate of Microsoft.
"

Sheesh! Direct2D is Windows-only. OpenGL is crippled on Windows, compared to the exact same hardware for other platforms. Of the top 5 browsers, IE, Firefox, Chrome, Safari and Opera, all except IE are cross-platform, and therefore only IE can use Direct2D.

That is not "hate", those are all straightforward facts.

Reply Parent Score: -2

RE[8]: Real tests
by n4cer on Sun 27th Jun 2010 18:46 in reply to "RE[7]: Real tests"
n4cer Member since:
2005-07-06

OpenGL on Windows is not crippled. Absent an ICD, it is hardware accelerated via Direct3D. With an ICD (which all major GPU IHVs provide), you have access to whatever extensions the hardware vendor supports.

Firefox nightlies currently use Direct2D and DirectWrite for hardware acceleration on Windows. Other 3rd-party applications may do the same, or use OpenGL. The OpenGL backend would take longer to implement because you don't have similarly focused APIs in OpenGL. You must build it yourself, whatever the platform, or rely on some toolkit vendor whose already done that work. Alternatively, you could build a framework that wraps the similar native APIs of each supported platform (assuming such exist).

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[8]: Real tests
by Nelson on Sun 27th Jun 2010 20:29 in reply to "RE[7]: Real tests"
Nelson Member since:
2005-11-29

"[q]However, just the API has landed to do this on Windows Vista and Windows 7. It's called Direct2D.


If I remember reading an article by a Microsoft developer - one of the questions I asked was regarding whether Microsoft could/would port GDI to Direct2D/DirectWrite so that GDI ran on top and merely relayed GDI calls through to Direct2D/DirectWrite. The reasoning he provided pretty much came down to two reasons; firstly they had limited time and would have loved to do it. Secondly the other problem is that it would have been very complex and very messy when one considers all the possibly variables one has to take into account.

I hope that with Windows 8 that full Direct2D and DirectWrite acceleration will come to the desktop but I have a feeling that that the grandparent (lemur2) to this thread is simply grasping at straws to justify his hate of Microsoft.
"

Sheesh! Direct2D is Windows-only. OpenGL is crippled on Windows, compared to the exact same hardware for other platforms. Of the top 5 browsers, IE, Firefox, Chrome, Safari and Opera, all except IE are cross-platform, and therefore only IE can use Direct2D.

That is not "hate", those are all straightforward facts. [/q]

Except that OpenGL is much harder to implement, and implement correctly. It is much less man hours of work to implement a Direct2D renderer. I know because prior to IE9 announcing GPU acceleration, I was working on a Direct2D cairo backend for just this purpose.

That aside though, I think people get too caught up in this cross platform idea, to the point where they take the focus off of the quality on each individual platform.

An example being how horrible Firefox on OSX was up until a few years. Sure, sharing technology is fine, but don't use it as an excuse to be lazy.

If Firefox can do it and achieve respectable performance in the little time it's had to implement Direct2D, others can certainly do it as well. You raising a stink about it is kinda muted by their great progress in this respect.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[8]: Real tests
by m1cro on Mon 28th Jun 2010 18:46 in reply to "RE[7]: Real tests"
m1cro Member since:
2006-12-22

[...], all except IE are cross-platform, and therefore only IE can use Direct2D.

That is not "hate", those are all straightforward facts.


Errrrm. Please explain why the Windows versions of cross-platform apps such as VLC and SMPlayer can use Direct3D as video output method. And then explain why the Windows version of other browsers couldn't use Direct2D as graphics output method.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[9]: Real tests
by lemur2 on Mon 28th Jun 2010 23:51 in reply to "RE[8]: Real tests"
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

"[...], all except IE are cross-platform, and therefore only IE can use Direct2D. That is not "hate", those are all straightforward facts.
Errrrm. Please explain why the Windows versions of cross-platform apps such as VLC and SMPlayer can use Direct3D as video output method. "

Only on Windows. Look up "conditional compilation" one day. Direct2D video output method is certainly NOT an option for applications such as VLC and SMPlayer on platforms other than Windows.

And then explain why the Windows version of other browsers couldn't use Direct2D as graphics output method.


They could, but they would have to re-write their whole graphics output method, just for Windows. Mozilla has done this effort, but other vendors may or may not choose to, depending on the set of platforms they are targetting, and their resources.

They certainly won't use Direct2D as the ONLY graphics output method, because doing that would constrain their application to Windows only.

Reply Parent Score: 2