Linked by David Adams on Fri 16th Jul 2010 19:44 UTC, submitted by sjvn
Sun Solaris, OpenSolaris A Computerworld blog speculates that the open-source Unix distribution may live on, but Oracle won't be supporting it. At this point, "OpenSolaris' only real future is as a fork, which would not be easy to pull off. Still, with enough interest from developers it could be done. OpenSolaris is licensed under the GPLv3 CDDL and various other OSS licenses, so the base code is available."
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Kebabbert
Member since:
2007-07-27

My opinion is that Oracle doesn't actually care about Solaris either. I think Oracle wants to be a one-stop shop and doesn't care if the customers buy Linux as long as it moves them closer to buying OracleDB.

The server world is converging around Linux and Windows Server on x86. I really don't see Ellison trying to stop that convergence.

I see that Ellison stops that convergence.

Larry has said that Linux is for lowend, and Solaris is for highend. He also said that OracleDB is run on Solaris, more than Linux or any other OS. Also, OracleDB is first developed on Solaris and then ported to other OSes, maybe because of DTrace (several Firefox developers have switched from Linux to Solaris just because of DTrace):
http://blog.mozilla.com/rob-sayre/2007/09/06/land-of-dtrace/
"I deleted the Ubuntu partition that I had. Now I’m using Solaris. It’s much nicer to use, except for the fonts. I don’t think I can work on Mozilla without DTrace ever again. Too useful."


http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9131829/Oracle_s_Sun_buy_Ell...
"The Solaris operating system is by far the best Unix technology available in the market," Ellison said.


http://www.serverwatch.com/news/article.php/3861376/Whats-the-Futur...
"We think it will be a long time before Linux ever catches up," Ellison said.
...
"I love Linux. We're big supporters of Linux, [but] Solaris is an older and more capable operating system," Ellison said.



So the conclusion is clear. Ellison thinks Solaris is superior to Linux and targets it as a highend OS (which it is). I do think he cares about Solaris, especially because he said in the second link:
"In explaining his decision to make the acquisition today, Oracle CEO Larry Ellison boiled down Sun into a company of two key assets: Java and the Solaris operating system."

So, yes, he cares about Solaris and he is betting on it. He is increasing research and development, more than Sun ever had - he has said this officially.




But regarding OpenSolaris, it is a different thing. We will see what happens when we see an official statement from Oracle. But we can see in the source code that OpenSolaris is rapid developed, maybe to be released as Solaris 11? There are frenetic activity going on in the source code today. Development has not stopped. You can check it out and compile if you want the latest build. There are no ISO files, but you can create one.

Reply Parent Score: 2

gnufreex Member since:
2010-05-06

Elison said all that before acquisition closed. EU was watching, he had to say something. And, as you see, he didn't mentioned OpenSolaris at all. Just proprietary Solaris. Even if Oracle puts huge amounts of money in Solaris, it will get completely overtaken by Linux at some point in future. Solaris' future is to be Oracle DB appliance and I don't see Oracle developing any general purpose features which might help Solaris rise again. Sun fought one man war against entire industry which support Linux. Larry isn't that dumb.

As for OpenSolaris, there are no ISOs, no support, OpenSolaris will be like Darwin at best. If that.

PS: As for DTrace. That article is old. Linux now has SystemTap.

Edited 2010-07-18 14:12 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 1

Kebabbert Member since:
2007-07-27

Elison said all that before acquisition closed. EU was watching, he had to say something. And, as you see, he didn't mentioned OpenSolaris at all. Just proprietary Solaris. Even if Oracle puts huge amounts of money in Solaris, it will get completely overtaken by Linux at some point in future.
...
Solaris' future is to be Oracle DB appliance and I don't see Oracle developing any general purpose features which might help Solaris rise again.

Well, I dont share your viewpoint. Oracle has invested more money in Solaris than ever Linux. Oracle's own Linux version is just a repackage of RedHat. And that does not cost billions of USD to do. On the other hand, Larry has invested 7.4 billion in Sun to get the two key assets: Solaris and Java. Larry would not invest billions if he didnt really want Solaris. So when you claim that Larry praised Solaris as the best highend OS out there, just because EU was watching - I dont think so. He meant what he said. Otherwise it would be dumb to invest billions in something that is inferior. You invest billions because you believe in the tech.

OracleDB plays best together with Solaris, but that is not unique. Because Solaris is so good, it also plays best together with SAP also, for instance. Even though Solaris uses slower RAM and slower CPUs than Linux, Solaris still wins official SAP benchmarks. That is because Solaris scales better, Solaris had 99% cpu utilization and Linux had 87%! It doesnt matter how fast hw Linux will run on, Solaris will use the hw better and win.

So, I am saying that Solaris plays best together with lots of software. Not only OracleDB. Therefore Solaris is not doomed to be an OracleDB appliance only. If you are going to build a large SAP installation for instance, then Solaris clearly is a better choice than Linux. Or OracleDB. etc.

Of course, any high end Unix is better than Linux in the Enterprise server halls. For instance, HP says the same thing about Linux and HP-UX: HP-UX is for highend and Linux is for lowend:
http://www.internetnews.com/dev-news/article.php/3809181/HP+Unix+Vi...


As for OpenSolaris, there are no ISOs, no support, OpenSolaris will be like Darwin at best. If that.

I disagree. Clearly, OpenSolaris will live in the future in some way or the other, because Solaris 11 is built upon OpenSolaris. Without OpenSolaris, there will be no Solaris 11.


PS: As for DTrace. That article is old. Linux now has SystemTap.

Please, dont mention Systemtap. It is just a DTrace wannabe. And it is a bad copy. Here we see that even Linux developers think that Systemtap is "crap":
http://blogs.sun.com/ahl/entry/dtrace_knockoffs
It is as bad as comparing BTRFS with ZFS. In the BTRFS mail lists, the developers have discussed the bad code in BTRFS. Havent you seen it?

Reply Parent Score: 2

nt_jerkface Member since:
2009-08-26


http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9131829/Oracle_s_Sun_buy_Ell...
"The Solaris operating system is by far the best Unix technology available in the market," Ellison said.


Look at this quote from the same article:
"I'm a Linux fan and if you want Linux we have the best Linux in the world. If you want UNIX, we have the best UNIX in the world."

That's a guy that will sell whichever Nix the market wants, and the market has been moving towards Linux on X86. He makes his money by selling a DB that runs just fine on Linux x86. Why should he make a significant investment in Solaris when the market is moving towards Linux? He isn't interested in changing that market direction and that is what counts.


So, yes, he cares about Solaris and he is betting on it. He is increasing research and development, more than Sun ever had - he has said this officially.

Yes he is investing in Solaris but it is at the mainframe level. It isn't like with Sun where the plan was to displace Linux with Unix. Ellison doesn't have an emotional attachment to Solaris.


But regarding OpenSolaris, it is a different thing. We will see what happens when we see an official statement from Oracle.


You don't need to wait for a statement, their position is clear by their actions.

The fact that OpenSolaris isn't on the main Oracle.com website speaks volumes. They're clearly interested in pushing other Sun acquisitions like Java and MySQL but not OpenSolaris. They would have killed it immediately if it weren't for the bad press that such a move would elicit.

Reply Parent Score: 2

Kebabbert Member since:
2007-07-27

Look at this quote from the same article:
"I'm a Linux fan and if you want Linux we have the best Linux in the world. If you want UNIX, we have the best UNIX in the world."

That's a guy that will sell whichever Nix the market wants, and the market has been moving towards Linux on X86. He makes his money by selling a DB that runs just fine on Linux x86. Why should he make a significant investment in Solaris when the market is moving towards Linux? He isn't interested in changing that market direction and that is what counts.

I dont understand your question: "Why should he make a significant investment in Solaris?". He IS already doing that: betting much more money on Solaris than he ever has betted on Linux. It is happening as we speak, have you missed it? Dont you read my posts? I just wrote in the post above: He has invested many billions in Solaris and Java. And he will continue to invest even more than that. If Larry invests many billions then he is committing and he (almost) goes all in. It is almost as 95% of Larrys billions goes to Solaris, and 5% goes to Linux.

Regarding why he prefers Solaris, I told you recently in the post above, that OracleDB runs better on Solaris than Linux. Solaris is the prefered OracleDB platform - this is outspoken and official. The official reference platform is Solaris - this was official long before Oracle bought Sun. And also, OracleDB runs on Solaris more than any OS. And also, OracleDB is developed first on Solaris, and then ported to other OS, maybe because of DTrace.

Almost all of this, I wrote just above. It is getting tiresome to repeat everything all the time. It would be much easier if you just read my posts?


"So, yes, he cares about Solaris and he is betting on it. He is increasing research and development, more than Sun ever had - he has said this officially.

Yes he is investing in Solaris but it is at the mainframe level. It isn't like with Sun where the plan was to displace Linux with Unix. Ellison doesn't have an emotional attachment to Solaris.
"
Ok, so now we agree that he is investing in Solaris? But above you seemed to imply he would stop to invest more? I dont get it? Is he investing or not?


"But regarding OpenSolaris, it is a different thing. We will see what happens when we see an official statement from Oracle.

You don't need to wait for a statement, their position is clear by their actions.
"
What "actions"? The problem is that Oracle has taken no actions at all yet. That is what this OS news article is about. There are no actions from Oracle. Or do you mean that the lack of actions is a bad sign? But below you write that they should have killed OpenSolaris? It is far worse to kill OpenSolaris, than to link to it from Oracle web page. So no actions proves nothing. It could be that Oracle is busy with all the income generating stuff first, and then turn attention to OpenSolaris. So no actions, does not prove anything.


The fact that OpenSolaris isn't on the main Oracle.com website speaks volumes.

When Oracle talks about Solaris, it is because they earn money on Solaris 10. Oracle is interested in pushing Solaris which costs money. But OpenSolaris is on their Solaris web page. So I am not as convinced as you.


They're clearly interested in pushing other Sun acquisitions like Java and MySQL but not OpenSolaris. They would have killed it immediately if it weren't for the bad press that such a move would elicit.

I dont think that Oracle cares about what others think. If they want to fire people, they do it. If they want to kill stuff, they do it. But the truth is that OpenSolaris development is continuing in a rapid pace which you can check yourself.

And how is Oracle supposed to release overdue Solaris 11, if all OpenSolaris code is scrapped? All new research and development goes into OpenSolaris first - so OpenSolaris will soon be forked off, polished and debugged - and then released as Solaris 11. There are lots of research and development into OpenSolaris, why throw away and kill it?

Your posts just dont make sense. It is like when we talked about Enterprise server halls, and you showed that Windows server sales are increasing. So what? What has Windows to do with Enterprise server halls? Totally off from reality.

Edited 2010-07-19 09:09 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2