Linked by David Adams on Tue 20th Jul 2010 18:07 UTC, submitted by sjvn
SuSE, openSUSE Long time fans of openSUSE Linux and its commercial big brother, Novell's SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop, will find a lot to like in this latest update.
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zypper
by vivainio on Tue 20th Jul 2010 20:13 UTC
vivainio
Member since:
2008-12-26

I love zypper already

ville@dhcppc2:~$ sudo zypper in spectacle

...

Problem: nothing provides PyYAML needed by spectacle-0.18-1.1.noarch
Solution 1: do not install spectacle-0.18-1.1.noarch
Solution 2: break spectacle by ignoring some of its dependencies

Choose from above solutions by number or cancel [1/2/c] (c): 2


I don't think that's possible with apt-get.

Reply Score: 2

RE: zypper
by Boldie on Tue 20th Jul 2010 20:58 in reply to "zypper"
Boldie Member since:
2007-03-26

I have never had any problems with dependencies or conflicts with apt.

The only systems I ever hosed have been rpm based
That said, I stopped distro shopping when 11.2 came out
11.3 looks even better!

Though I would like conflict free package management debian style

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[2]: zypper
by vivainio on Tue 20th Jul 2010 21:07 in reply to "RE: zypper"
vivainio Member since:
2008-12-26

I have never had any problems with dependencies or conflicts with apt

I've had tons, not being able to install/download packages when dependencies are not available being a good example (you can --force-all dpkg, but not apt).

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: zypper
by vivainio on Tue 20th Jul 2010 22:05 in reply to "RE: zypper"
vivainio Member since:
2008-12-26

The only systems I ever hosed have been rpm based


Actually, I'm taking a liberty to add a new comment since it seems I can't click "edit" anymore -

the problem with apt is indeed the difficulty with which you can hose your system (i.e. it's more anal about the consistency requirements). This cultural difference might make rpm based systems more useful for distributions that are still in development - they are by default somewhat hosed all the time, and what you usually want is "give me all the new stuff, no questions asked".

I may be talking out of my ass because it's been a long time since I used an rpm based system - but on my time doing maemo development (apt/deb based system), I often longed for a slackware-like extract-tgz-here-and-shut-up functionality. RPM might be the good middle ground in that it tracks dependencies, but allows you to break the consistency of currently installed packages without giving you pain about it all the time.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE: zypper
by sorpigal on Wed 21st Jul 2010 16:31 in reply to "zypper"
sorpigal Member since:
2005-11-02

This kind of friendly I don't want.

Yes, you could write an apt front end that prompts you and asks "Would you like me to break your system?" The reason this hasn't happened is because it's a bad idea and nobody sane wants it. Breaking things *should be hard* and require much more deliberate action than just saying "yes" to a prompt you didn't read anyway.

A better reaction to the above prompt would be to ask "Who released a distribution with broken dependencies?" What is spectacle and why did it get into a release repo without its required dependencies?

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[2]: zypper
by vivainio on Wed 21st Jul 2010 16:45 in reply to "RE: zypper"
vivainio Member since:
2008-12-26

Breaking things *should be hard* and require much more deliberate action than just saying "yes" to a prompt you didn't read anyway.


Actually, "yes" is not a valid answer, you have to choose 2) (which means you will read the prompt).


A better reaction to the above prompt would be to ask "Who released a distribution with broken dependencies?" What is spectacle and why did it get into a release repo without its required dependencies?


This is not a release repo, it's a work-in-progress repository for MeeGo toolchain (for opensuse).

Spectacle generates rpm .spec files from yaml files, and PyYAML was apparently not packaged (but it was still listed as a dependency - a packaging bug, but something I can live with).

I've learned that in real life "this is unacceptable" is not a good approach when something is broken. Rather, I prefer "give me a 3 minute workaround and I'm good". Therefore, zypper is a better realpolitik tool than apt-get, for me at least.

Reply Parent Score: 3