Linked by David Adams on Tue 3rd Aug 2010 16:05 UTC, submitted by sjvn
Linux As we mentioned in a previous article, Red Hat advocate Greg DeKoenigsberg claimed that due to the much larger amount of code it's contributed, Red Hat is a better open source citizen than Canonical, adding, "Canonical is a marketing organization masquerading as an engineering organization." A Computerworld blog retorts that that's no insult; and that marketing Linux could be just as important to the cause as contributing code. Updated
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RE[3]: Business as usual
by Lunitik on Tue 3rd Aug 2010 21:10 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Business as usual"
Lunitik
Member since:
2005-08-07

To be clear, Red hat didn't start this discussion, an ex-redhatter did, Greg no longer works with the company.

I hate Ubuntu much less than I used to simply because I realize what you're saying is true, though. Canonical is attracting nothing of value to Linux. All they're attracting are users, and very few that actually know what they're doing stick around. Even less ever actually pay a dime to Canonical. In fact, I think the only source of income to speak of for Canonical is coming via the development deal with Google.

Anyone actually looking to do anything serious with Linux is still going to Red Hat with their business, which is definitely a good thing.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[4]: Business as usual
by vivainio on Tue 3rd Aug 2010 21:38 in reply to "RE[3]: Business as usual"
vivainio Member since:
2008-12-26


Anyone actually looking to do anything serious with Linux is still going to Red Hat with their business, which is definitely a good thing.


Ubuntu is widely used as a development workstation. That's somewhat serious stuff too, in the sense that people get paid actual money to do it.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[5]: Business as usual
by j-kidd on Wed 4th Aug 2010 13:50 in reply to "RE[4]: Business as usual"
j-kidd Member since:
2005-07-06

I felt sad everytime I saw my colleagues pressing the Up key dozens of times to retrieve a command, when they could have just pressed the PgUp key once if Ubuntu ships with a developer-friendly /etc/inputrc.

I felt sad when Ubuntu decided to be the first distro to ship the shiny but untested distribute in place of the old but steady setuptools in an actual release. A LTS release, no less.

I felt sad when trying to install Greenplum on Ubuntu 10.04 and couldn't get it to work without some funky workaround. I have always wondered why vendors would only list RHEL and SLES as supported OS, when their products always work fine on Gentoo. Now I know why.

I felt sad when using Ubuntu on production servers became the logical next step after using it on development machines. The apache version on Ubuntu 8.04 LTS is still stuck on 2.2.8 with many unfixed mod_proxy bugs. The memcached version is still 1.2.2 with a serious connection bug.

Ubuntu is a sad distro for developers.

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[5]: Business as usual
by Lunitik on Wed 4th Aug 2010 21:12 in reply to "RE[4]: Business as usual"
Lunitik Member since:
2005-08-07

How many of those developers are actually paying to utilize Ubuntu? Very few would be my guess.

When I said "serious" I meant people doing mission critical jobs. No disrespect to developers, but other than losing your unsaved work, there are few risks to a companies bottom line if your system goes down for a while.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[4]: Business as usual
by aaronb on Tue 3rd Aug 2010 22:04 in reply to "RE[3]: Business as usual"
aaronb Member since:
2005-07-06

Canonical is attracting nothing of value to Linux. All they're attracting are users, and very few that actually know what they're doing stick around.


Attracting users to Linux is very valuable, it encourages developers to consider Linux as a viable platform.

Redhat and Ubuntu are productive in different ways.
Redhat and Ubuntu have different approaches.
Redhat and Ubuntu are not SCO ;)

Edited 2010-08-03 22:04 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[4]: Business as usual
by apoclypse on Wed 4th Aug 2010 02:30 in reply to "RE[3]: Business as usual"
apoclypse Member since:
2007-02-17

First off this is a silly argument. Red Hat makes their code freely available under the GNU license. They can't complain because someone else packged it better than them. They still get the credit in the source.

Also, i've seen a lot of FX houses who use Ubuntu heavily, because its generally stable, free, and they already have all the support they need in their highly paid Linux admins. Ubuntu has better hardware support out of the box, the installer and updater are damn near seamless compared to how things used to be and the biggest reason why Ubuntu took off, its one freaking CD. You used to have to download a whole DVD full of crap just to get a halfway decent distro. Ubuntu focused on keeping everything to one CD and let the user use their repos to add whatever they need.

That's one of the main reason why I see developers or FX houses use Ubuntu, you get most of the benefits of Red Hat with the benefits of Debian, all in a nice package. I used to be a redhat user and moved to Fedora when redhat decided the deskotp market wasn't worth it. Every release of Fedora has treated their users the same, as guinea pigs. Buggy installer, buggy software releases. Ubuntu at least TRIES to have a modicum of stability between releases and anyone who calls ubuntu's releases buggy have either not used Linux long enough or have really short memories. I have horror stories of so called desktop distros like Mandrake, and Red Hat. Ubuntu is rock solid in comparison.

I think a lot of the hate for Ubuntu stems from jealousy. I don't mean to sound liek I drank the kool-aid or buy into their marketing but the distro really i Linux for regular people. When Ubuntu first came out and forums first came up the forum was probably the friendliest linux based forum anywhere at the time. The users on the forum were genuinely trying to be helpful and newbs were free to ask questions without having some deb guru berate them. I couldn't really say that same about Fedora. I went on the forum to ask a question about an installer bug that was their for four consecutive releases, asking for a workaround and got ignored, and saw that others with the same questions on the forum got ignored. Interestingly the answer was in the ubuntu forum as the forum members didn't seem to mind if you posted about another distro, they would still try to help you. Ubuntu is where its at because that kind of attention is what users want. Word of mouth is what got Ubuntu where its at, the rest is just gravy.

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[5]: Business as usual
by j-kidd on Wed 4th Aug 2010 13:54 in reply to "RE[4]: Business as usual"
j-kidd Member since:
2005-07-06

Ubuntu at least TRIES to have a modicum of stability between releases and anyone who calls ubuntu's releases buggy have either not used Linux long enough or have really short memories.


Anyone who has gone through the Intel driver debacle with Ubuntu 9.04 will disagree with you.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[4]: Business as usual
by Aragorn992 on Wed 4th Aug 2010 12:24 in reply to "RE[3]: Business as usual"
Aragorn992 Member since:
2007-05-27

T...Canonical is attracting nothing of value to Linux. All they're attracting are users, and very few that actually know what they're doing stick around...


So users have no value if they don't know what they're doing, then? Microsofts accounting department would disagree with this.

Think of the developers that could be hired with a tenth of Microsofts revenue from Windows? Of course that would require a user-oriented mentality to create something users would want to actually pay for in the first place.

Chicken and egg problem. This kind of viewpoint hinders Linux's acceptance. Canonical's more "user" oriented approach advances Linux's acceptance (which btw, also helps Red Hat).

Microsofts sales of Windows to normal "users" dwarfs Red Hats pathetic (relatively speaking, of course) revenue. Something to think about before jumping on the non-developer-users-don't-matter bandwagon.

Reply Parent Score: 1