Linked by Thom Holwerda on Tue 10th Aug 2010 22:00 UTC, submitted by JRepin
KDE KDE today celebrates its semi-annual release event, releasing new versions of the Plasma Desktop and Netbook workspaces, the KDE Development Platform and a large number of applications available in their 4.5.0 versions. In this release, the KDE team focused on stability and completeness of the desktop experience.
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RE[2]: Comment by mtzmtulivu
by WereCatf on Wed 11th Aug 2010 01:57 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by mtzmtulivu"
WereCatf
Member since:
2006-02-15

Unfortunately, while the way that they released KDE 4 ultimately resulted in a very solid DE, it also seems to have created a serious stigma for the project. I would love it if folks would just look at KDE 4 for what it is, but as with many things, it takes tons of good publicity to overcome even a small amount of bad publicity, and KDE 4.0 created more than just a small amount of bad publicity, regardless of whether it was actually good for the project from a technology standpoint to release it that they way that they did.

As any good PR-person would know, first impressions are everything. KDE4.0 was the one to give the first impressions of KDE4 to many people and that'll be almost impossible to get over until KDE5.

From technology standpoint it was perhaps a more efficient way of doing things than releasing "KDE4.0 Developer Release" first was it really that much more efficient? Wouldn't such a Developer Release have sufficed? It would atleast have reduced the number of complaints and not created such an overwhelming bad impression. I mean, I do understand why they did it the way they did, I just don't really believe it was worth it.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[3]: Comment by mtzmtulivu
by lemur2 on Wed 11th Aug 2010 02:12 in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by mtzmtulivu"
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

Unfortunately, while the way that they released KDE 4 ultimately resulted in a very solid DE, it also seems to have created a serious stigma for the project. I would love it if folks would just look at KDE 4 for what it is, but as with many things, it takes tons of good publicity to overcome even a small amount of bad publicity, and KDE 4.0 created more than just a small amount of bad publicity, regardless of whether it was actually good for the project from a technology standpoint to release it that they way that they did.

As any good PR-person would know, first impressions are everything. KDE4.0 was the one to give the first impressions of KDE4 to many people and that'll be almost impossible to get over until KDE5.

From technology standpoint it was perhaps a more efficient way of doing things than releasing "KDE4.0 Developer Release" first was it really that much more efficient? Wouldn't such a Developer Release have sufficed? It would atleast have reduced the number of complaints and not created such an overwhelming bad impression. I mean, I do understand why they did it the way they did, I just don't really believe it was worth it.


I have a distinct impression that the "overwhelming bad impression" you speak of was actually just a beat up. It is driven by corporate PR agendas, and not by actual people.

Think about it for a moment ... KDE 4.0 was released a couple of years ago, for no cost, and the developers said it was a development version, and they solicited user feedback with it. Getting user feedback necessarily means getting users to try it. The earlier you get user feedback incorporated into the design, the better the eventual result is.

Well, user feedback they got, and now KDE SC 4.5 is arguably the best desktop available today, bar none.

Meanwhile, what about a near-contemporary desktop system released some years ago, which cost users real money:

http://ourlan.homelinux.net/qdig/?Qwd=./KDE4_desktop&Qif=91992_vist...

Today, where is the same level of media-driven disarrangement of that?

Today, any mention of KDE 4.0 is a smear campaign, pure and simple, driven by a PR agenda. Pay no attention to it, it is ancient history. Just enjoy the best-of-breed KDE SC 4.5, and laugh at those who want to keep you away from trying it.

Edited 2010-08-11 02:32 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 5

UltraZelda64 Member since:
2006-12-05

Think about it for a moment ... KDE 4.0 was released a couple of years ago, for no cost, and the developers said it was a development version, and they solicited user feedback with it. Getting user feedback necessarily means getting users to try it. The earlier you get user feedback incorporated into the design, the better the eventual result is.

It seemed to me more like KDE 4.0 was supposed to be the "next big thing," but as its release drew closer and it became obvious they couldn't get it anywhere near ready by 4.0, they backtracked and tried to claim that 4.0 will really be primarily for testing and not of release quality. Then they started saying that there's a difference between "KDE 4" and "KDE 4.0," and that it should be "ready" for general use around 4.2 or 4.3. I think it's safe to say that by 4.3, it really was just about ready, but still... the beginnings of "KDE 4" were a nightmare; slow, buggy, featureless software with very bad communication from the KDE guys.

Well, user feedback they got, and now KDE SC 4.5 is arguably the best desktop available today, bar none.

It's damn good today, I agree, but I still run into frequent graphical glitches involving the pop-up tooltips on the taskbar and the pop-up Device Notifier applet. And I strongly disagree with considering it "arguably the best" desktop environment today. That's too subjective, and if you'd try it on a machine with under 512MB of RAM, you'd quickly find that most of the alternatives (and even KDE 3) would run circles around it. I'm not completely impressed with its performance.

I like how they "stole" the Aero Snap concept from Windows 7 though; that's one thing Microsoft actually got right for once, it works great, and it just makes sense. It's one of those things that makes you think, "why didn't they think of this before?" And I'm glad to see such a feature being added to a free desktop in such a relatively short amount of time. Aero Shake is useful too, but it looks like KDE hasn't added similar functionality yet (running KDE 4.4 in openSUSE 11.3).

Reply Parent Score: 2

Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

Today, any mention of KDE 4.0 is a smear campaign, pure and simple, driven by a PR agenda. Pay no attention to it, it is ancient history. Just enjoy the best-of-breed KDE SC 4.5, and laugh at those who want to keep you away from trying it.


and your constant negativity over past Windows releases is not a smear campaign, why, exactly?

Get over yourself. KDE 4.0 was a big mess, and wholly mismanaged in every possible way - from developers to communicators, they all messed up. In any self-respecting organisation it would've led to some serious soul-searching and re-evaluating of roles, responsibilities, and so on. Instead, the KDE guys just blamed everyone else - and people like you continue to do so, to this very day.

KDE4 has gotten a lot better, obviously, but that does not negate the fact that 4.0 was a turd. Just as people still talk about Windows Vista as being a mess (see any Windows 7 review, or any talk of Windows for that matter), we still talk about KDE 4.0.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[4]: Comment by mtzmtulivu
by mart on Wed 11th Aug 2010 09:06 in reply to "RE[3]: Comment by mtzmtulivu"
mart Member since:
2005-11-17

I have a distinct impression that the "overwhelming bad impression" you speak of was actually just a beat up. It is driven by corporate PR agendas, and not by actual people.


It was an hard decision but turned out to be the right one. Why the right one if there are still people that are talking about how bad the release was?

Because the number of our developers literally skyrocketed since then. It sparkled an interest i did never seen before by potential contributors.

Now, I understand users want a real finished product, but unfortunately is not how opensource can work or ever worked: release early, release often. WE don't have closed betas or millions of investment. The only big resource we have is crowdsourcing, get as much people as possible to try it and get as much people as possible to *get involved*.

There were some things that were screw up for sure, one was the communication with distributions that made it the /default/ KDE installation too early, and overall we didn't communicate enough that was for developers. KDE 4.0 developer edition? perhaps could have worked, i don't know.

But a release *had* to be done, and for our developer community turned out that was really, really healty.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[4]: Comment by mtzmtulivu
by tyrione on Wed 11th Aug 2010 09:42 in reply to "RE[3]: Comment by mtzmtulivu"
tyrione Member since:
2005-11-21

You're on crack if you think KDE 4.5 [I'm typing on 4.4.5] is the best Desktop environment, bar none.

Not even close.

Reply Parent Score: -1

RE[3]: Comment by mtzmtulivu
by No it isnt on Wed 11th Aug 2010 10:53 in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by mtzmtulivu"
No it isnt Member since:
2005-11-14

As I repeatedly point out in every discussion of the infamous KDE 4.0: OS X 10.0 was a bug-ridden, bloated failure and barely beta quality as well. Somehow, Apple was immediately forgiven, even though the first half-decent upgrade of OS X (10.2) cost money.

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[4]: Comment by mtzmtulivu
by mgl.branco on Thu 12th Aug 2010 12:39 in reply to "RE[3]: Comment by mtzmtulivu"
mgl.branco Member since:
2009-07-22

As I repeatedly point out in every discussion of the infamous KDE 4.0: OS X 10.0 was a bug-ridden, bloated failure and barely beta quality as well. Somehow, Apple was immediately forgiven, even though the first half-decent upgrade of OS X (10.2) cost money.

You are absolutely right. KDE devs are volunteers (some are paid, of course) that do their best and release for free.

Reply Parent Score: 3