Linked by Thom Holwerda on Tue 10th Aug 2010 22:00 UTC, submitted by JRepin
KDE KDE today celebrates its semi-annual release event, releasing new versions of the Plasma Desktop and Netbook workspaces, the KDE Development Platform and a large number of applications available in their 4.5.0 versions. In this release, the KDE team focused on stability and completeness of the desktop experience.
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RE[4]: Comment by mtzmtulivu
by Thom_Holwerda on Wed 11th Aug 2010 08:35 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Comment by mtzmtulivu"
Thom_Holwerda
Member since:
2005-06-29

Today, any mention of KDE 4.0 is a smear campaign, pure and simple, driven by a PR agenda. Pay no attention to it, it is ancient history. Just enjoy the best-of-breed KDE SC 4.5, and laugh at those who want to keep you away from trying it.


and your constant negativity over past Windows releases is not a smear campaign, why, exactly?

Get over yourself. KDE 4.0 was a big mess, and wholly mismanaged in every possible way - from developers to communicators, they all messed up. In any self-respecting organisation it would've led to some serious soul-searching and re-evaluating of roles, responsibilities, and so on. Instead, the KDE guys just blamed everyone else - and people like you continue to do so, to this very day.

KDE4 has gotten a lot better, obviously, but that does not negate the fact that 4.0 was a turd. Just as people still talk about Windows Vista as being a mess (see any Windows 7 review, or any talk of Windows for that matter), we still talk about KDE 4.0.

Reply Parent Score: 2

Richard Dale Member since:
2005-07-22

"Today, any mention of KDE 4.0 is a smear campaign, pure and simple, driven by a PR agenda. Pay no attention to it, it is ancient history. Just enjoy the best-of-breed KDE SC 4.5, and laugh at those who want to keep you away from trying it.


and your constant negativity over past Windows releases is not a smear campaign, why, exactly?

Get over yourself. KDE 4.0 was a big mess, and wholly mismanaged in every possible way - from developers to communicators, they all messed up. In any self-respecting organisation it would've led to some serious soul-searching and re-evaluating of roles, responsibilities, and so on. Instead, the KDE guys just blamed everyone else - and people like you continue to do so, to this very day.

KDE4 has gotten a lot better, obviously, but that does not negate the fact that 4.0 was a turd. Just as people still talk about Windows Vista as being a mess (see any Windows 7 review, or any talk of Windows for that matter), we still talk about KDE 4.0.
"

I'm sorry this is just plain wrong. In terms of development, KDE 4.0 was a big success - we don't have anything to apologize or soul search about. You can tell if a development project has failed quite easily. There would have been recriminations on the public KDE mailings lists, code would have been rewritten, and the feature list reduced. That didn't happen with KDE 4.x, and you know why? Because it wasn't a failure like you say it was.

In terms of communication, yes we have clearly failed to communicate as well as we could have with people like yourself. I personally thought there were a lot of informative and interesting articles on KDE Dot News such as Troy Unrau's Pillars of KDE series. We did say quite clearly that KDE 4.0 was a developer/early adopter release. It takes two to communicate, and if the receiving party isn't listening, then there is really a lot the sender can do.

It wouldn't have been possible for KDE to 'get a lot better' as you say it has, if it had been a failure because in development terms it just wouldn't have been possible to build something as large and complex as KDE 4.5 on top of a foundation which supposedly had 'failed'.

Reply Parent Score: 12

RE[5]: Comment by mtzmtulivu
by lemur2 on Wed 11th Aug 2010 12:34 in reply to "RE[4]: Comment by mtzmtulivu"
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

KDE4 has gotten a lot better, obviously, but that does not negate the fact that 4.0 was a turd. Just as people still talk about Windows Vista as being a mess (see any Windows 7 review, or any talk of Windows for that matter), we still talk about KDE 4.0.


This would be fair enough if it weren't for the fact that users were supposed to pay for Vista.

For the KDE developers to release an underdone KDE 4.0 for users to try is an entirely different thing to Microsoft foisting underdone Vista onto users ... ONLY because Microsoft were asking said users for money. When Vista came out it was the only thing you could buy in stores ... until users screamed "foul" and made vendors offer a "downgrade" to XP that wasn't actually "down".

The KDE developers, OTOH, kept releasing versions of KDE 3.x alongside KDE 4.0. KDE distributions such as MEPIS and PCLinuxOS have only now just started releasing the KDE 4.x series as their default desktop.

A little perspective, please, Thom.

Edited 2010-08-11 12:38 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 3

Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

This would be fair enough if it weren't for the fact that users were supposed to pay for Vista.


Nonsense argument. Open source is supposedly the superior development model that produces the best software - except when it doesn't, and then it's suddenly all puppy-eyes and 'we're so poor'.

This is no excuse, and it never has been. A very clear case of the attribution theory - attributing successes to oneself, but failures to others. Be a man, and take responsibility for the mistakes made during the 4.0 process. You'll learn from it.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[5]: Comment by mtzmtulivu
by Beket_ on Wed 11th Aug 2010 12:50 in reply to "RE[4]: Comment by mtzmtulivu"
Beket_ Member since:
2009-07-10

"Today, any mention of KDE 4.0 is a smear campaign, pure and simple, driven by a PR agenda. Pay no attention to it, it is ancient history. Just enjoy the best-of-breed KDE SC 4.5, and laugh at those who want to keep you away from trying it.


and your constant negativity over past Windows releases is not a smear campaign, why, exactly?

Get over yourself. KDE 4.0 was a big mess, and wholly mismanaged in every possible way - from developers to communicators, they all messed up. In any self-respecting organisation it would've led to some serious soul-searching and re-evaluating of roles, responsibilities, and so on. Instead, the KDE guys just blamed everyone else - and people like you continue to do so, to this very day.
"

Thom, this is going nowhere. When kde devs say that:

"KDE 4.0 didn't fail, and it was actually very successful",

"KDE 4.0 has been one of the most successful innovations in the last 30 years" or that,

"KDE 4.0 was a big success - we don't have anything to apologize or soul search about"

I no longer wonder why, after 2 years, it still has so many problems.

Reply Parent Score: 0

Richard Dale Member since:
2005-07-22

"[q]Today, any mention of KDE 4.0 is a smear campaign, pure and simple, driven by a PR agenda. Pay no attention to it, it is ancient history. Just enjoy the best-of-breed KDE SC 4.5, and laugh at those who want to keep you away from trying it.


and your constant negativity over past Windows releases is not a smear campaign, why, exactly?

Get over yourself. KDE 4.0 was a big mess, and wholly mismanaged in every possible way - from developers to communicators, they all messed up. In any self-respecting organisation it would've led to some serious soul-searching and re-evaluating of roles, responsibilities, and so on. Instead, the KDE guys just blamed everyone else - and people like you continue to do so, to this very day.
"

Thom, this is going nowhere. When kde devs say that:

"KDE 4.0 didn't fail, and it was actually very successful",

"KDE 4.0 has been one of the most successful innovations in the last 30 years" or that,

"KDE 4.0 was a big success - we don't have anything to apologize or soul search about"

I no longer wonder why, after 2 years, it still has so many problems. [/q]

I stand by the statements from me above that you are quoting.

What major problems does KDE 4.5 have? Does it have more problems than you would expect for a similarly ambitious Free Software Project? I don't think it does.

I don't call something like a settings option on a task bar, or the position of a tick in a notification panel to be a major problem.

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[6]: Comment by mtzmtulivu
by emilsedgh on Wed 11th Aug 2010 16:20 in reply to "RE[5]: Comment by mtzmtulivu"
emilsedgh Member since:
2007-06-21

WHAT THE FUCK?
You expect some **__volunteers__** who 'said' their program was not ready for users come and 'apologize' because users were too stubborn not to use it?

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[5]: Comment by mtzmtulivu
by emilsedgh on Wed 11th Aug 2010 16:16 in reply to "RE[4]: Comment by mtzmtulivu"
emilsedgh Member since:
2007-06-21

Hi
Well, from the KDE developers point of view, releasing 4.0 in that time was the only option to keep the project running.

while many components, like plasma were so immature and unstable at the time, many applications were good enough.
And they were developed mostly by volunteers.
And KDE *has* to keep volunteers satisfied.

Imagine writing a KFoo application and it doesnt get released in ~1-2 years. You'll simply lose your motivation.


Now, the blaming parts. The people to blame are distro's. Mainly Kubuntu and Fedora.
Developers mentioned that its not for users. Distro's were too excited to jump on the hype around 'KDE4'.
Kubuntu was among the most popular kde distro's. With releasing their kde4 version, they hurt themselves and kde so badly.

But, still, the 'hate' around kde was always there. Many people hate kde without even using it. The 'version 4 sucks' is another excuse.

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[5]: Comment by mtzmtulivu
by mgl.branco on Thu 12th Aug 2010 12:36 in reply to "RE[4]: Comment by mtzmtulivu"
mgl.branco Member since:
2009-07-22

Get over yourself. KDE 4.0 was a big mess, and wholly mismanaged in every possible way - from developers to communicators, they all messed up. In any self-respecting organisation it would've led to some serious soul-searching and re-evaluating of roles, responsibilities, and so on. Instead, the KDE guys just blamed everyone else - and people like you continue to do so, to this very day.

I don't know the in and outs of the community, but I believe they took many changes after they analysed the kde 4.0 thing. I mean,promo team, renaming thing...

KDE4 has gotten a lot better, obviously, but that does not negate the fact that 4.0 was a turd. Just as people still talk about Windows Vista as being a mess (see any Windows 7 review, or any talk of Windows for that matter), we still talk about KDE 4.0.

OK. And with don't all get over this, as you say, and forget about KDE 4.0 an Vista and judge KDE an Win based on their actual releases Win7 and 4.5?. If you so many many criticisms are no longer valid.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[5]: Comment by mtzmtulivu
by Luminair on Thu 12th Aug 2010 15:36 in reply to "RE[4]: Comment by mtzmtulivu"
Luminair Member since:
2007-03-30

all true

Reply Parent Score: 2