Linked by Thom Holwerda on Fri 20th Aug 2010 21:40 UTC, submitted by koki
BeOS & Derivatives This summer, too, the Haikuproject is part of the Google Summer of Code event. One of the more interesting projects is the Services Kit (draft document!) by Christophe "Shusui" Huriaux, which is an API to facilitate the creation of native web-enabled programs using standard web protocols and data exchange mechanisms.
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RE[4]: Strain
by blitze on Sun 22nd Aug 2010 02:14 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Strain"
blitze
Member since:
2006-09-15

Try loading both modern OS's up with 6 avi streams and 10 MP3 streams and then get back to me about how wonderful the User Environment is.

Even on modern accelerated hardware bot OS's will crawl. BeOS was doing this on 10 year old hardware with no audio, frame drops or non responsive UI without the power of computing we have to day.

Chalk and Cheese.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[5]: Strain
by smitty on Sun 22nd Aug 2010 03:45 in reply to "RE[4]: Strain"
smitty Member since:
2005-10-13

Try loading both modern OS's up with 6 avi streams and 10 MP3 streams and then get back to me about how wonderful the User Environment is.

Even on modern accelerated hardware bot OS's will crawl. BeOS was doing this on 10 year old hardware with no audio, frame drops or non responsive UI without the power of computing we have to day.

Chalk and Cheese.


I did just that in addition to having a few browser windows open, and I'm not noticing any issues at all. CPU use is hovering around 10% and i can't even find a single stutter to complain about.

Now I'll admit that Haiku could probably do this on slower hardware than what I'm running, but I don't think a Q6600 CPU, 4GB RAM, and a Radeon 3870 GPU are that much more powerful than what the typical user runs today.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[6]: Strain
by WereCatf on Sun 22nd Aug 2010 05:30 in reply to "RE[5]: Strain"
WereCatf Member since:
2006-02-15

I did just that in addition to having a few browser windows open, and I'm not noticing any issues at all. CPU use is hovering around 10% and i can't even find a single stutter to complain about.

I just tried it myself but I didn't bother with mp3s. I just opened 10 AVI files instead, resulting in about 17% CPU usage. That's not bad IMHO; 10 simultaneous videos playing and plenty of room for more. Haiku ain't the only OS that can do that and the people promoting Haiku should rather find something else to use as metrics instead of "I can play so and so many videos at the same time!" Playing several video streams on even a moderately recent hardware just is no feat at all.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[6]: Strain
by dragossh on Sun 22nd Aug 2010 22:40 in reply to "RE[5]: Strain"
dragossh Member since:
2008-12-16

I did just that in addition to having a few browser windows open, and I'm not noticing any issues at all. CPU use is hovering around 10% and i can't even find a single stutter to complain about.

Now I'll admit that Haiku could probably do this on slower hardware than what I'm running, but I don't think a Q6600 CPU, 4GB RAM, and a Radeon 3870 GPU are that much more powerful than what the typical user runs today.

BeOS did that with a few MHz, <256MB of RAM and software rendering. I guess all that glossy stuff doesn't help if you need a powerful computer to do what was possible 10 years ago.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[5]: Strain
by konrad on Sun 22nd Aug 2010 12:22 in reply to "RE[4]: Strain"
konrad Member since:
2006-01-06

While its cool, video and audio editing on BeOS is joke. There are no applications that are good enough for professional work. So even it it could run 40 streams without hickups its just a nice demo to impress your roommates.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[6]: Strain
by Anonymous Coward on Sun 22nd Aug 2010 16:45 in reply to "RE[5]: Strain"
Anonymous Coward Member since:
2005-07-06

While its cool, video and audio editing on BeOS is joke. There are no applications that are good enough for professional work.


There really aren't many outside of Windows and Mac. Of all of the apps on Linux for video editing, only Cinelerra, and Kdenlive even come close, and it's still a huge step down from even Premiere elements.

VLMC looks very promising, but development is moving at a pretty slow pace.

I think once there are stable, pro-quality video editing apps for Linux, it will be trivial to have them on Haiku as well.

On the other hand, audio is looking better, since some of the major audio hardware companies still use BeOS in their hardware, and will probably use Haiku when there is a stable release. Maybe there will be a version of Ardour, Audacity or Traverso when there is a 1.0 release... but until then, I doubt you'll see many popular apps for Haiku.

http://www.tascam.com/products/sx-1.html
http://www.roland.com/
http://www.izcorp.com/

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[5]: Strain
by Soulbender on Sun 22nd Aug 2010 14:41 in reply to "RE[4]: Strain"
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

That was a cool BeOS ability 10 years ago, not so much today. Any modern OS running on moderate hardware is up to that task these days.
BeOS was cool and Haiku is cool but running 10 mp3's and 6 videos won't be the selling point today.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[6]: Strain
by Valhalla on Sun 22nd Aug 2010 15:59 in reply to "RE[5]: Strain"
Valhalla Member since:
2006-01-24

That was a cool BeOS ability 10 years ago, not so much today. Any modern OS running on moderate hardware is up to that task these days.
BeOS was cool and Haiku is cool but running 10 mp3's and 6 videos won't be the selling point today.


True, but it depends on wether that is because the hardware is so much better nowadays that every OS can play lots of videos simultaneously or if the OSes themselves have catched up with Beos high level of responsiveness. When I do computionally heavy things like rendering/compression/encoding on Windows and Linux the system can become slow and slightly unresponsive (particularly on windows), this never happened back on Beos so it will be interesting to try maxing out Haiku once it matures a bit more to see if this still holds true. Hell, even copying a large file slows down user interaction in windows/linux from time to time which is probably fine for a server os, but for a desktop os I rather have the file copying 5-10 seconds slower and have a fully interactive system while it copies. In my opinion responsiveness should always trump throughput in a desktop environment.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[5]: Strain
by Fettarme H-Milch on Sun 22nd Aug 2010 21:29 in reply to "RE[4]: Strain"
Fettarme H-Milch Member since:
2010-02-16

Try loading both modern OS's up with 6 avi streams and 10 MP3 streams and then get back to me about how wonderful the User Environment is.

Even on modern accelerated hardware bot OS's will crawl.

Tried that. Works fine on my aging KDE/Linux-powered laptop. The only bottleneck is my slow hard drive and that bottleneck has nothing to do with the used OS but with the cache setting.

BeOS was a great OS back then but other operating systems catched up and exceeded meanwhile.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[6]: Strain
by dragossh on Sun 22nd Aug 2010 22:42 in reply to "RE[5]: Strain"
dragossh Member since:
2008-12-16

THE HARDWARE caught up. Even today, I see Windows 7 locking up and doing its own stuff instead of responding to me. That's not evolution, that's stagnation.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[5]: Strain
by richsax on Wed 25th Aug 2010 10:38 in reply to "RE[4]: Strain"
richsax Member since:
2010-08-16

Try loading both modern OS's up with 6 avi streams and 10 MP3 streams and then get back to me about how wonderful the User Environment is



Works fine, actually, on my win 7 peecee.

But playing a buttload of videostreams must be the worst metric ever conceived, since 99,999% of all users play only one stream at a time.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[6]: Strain
by koki on Wed 25th Aug 2010 15:11 in reply to "RE[5]: Strain"
koki Member since:
2005-10-17

"Try loading both modern OS's up with 6 avi streams and 10 MP3 streams and then get back to me about how wonderful the User Environment is



Works fine, actually, on my win 7 peecee.

But playing a buttload of videostreams must be the worst metric ever conceived, since 99,999% of all users play only one stream at a time.
"

As I already mentioned on another comment here, the purpose of this sort of demo is not to show the practicality of playing 10 videos at the same time, but to demonstrate the efficiency of the system under heavy load; the point being, no matter what you throw at Haiku, you will always enjoy a smooth user experience, even if you are using low end hardware.

Given the right (high-end, hardware accelerated) PC, Win 7 (or Linux) may also play multiple streams w/o a hitch. The point is, though, that using Haiku you don't need a supercomputer with hardware acceleration to enjoy a system that does not annoy you with the occasional UI lagging and/or mouse jerkiness.

For example, I have a middle of the road dual core PC with 1GB RAM, and Haiku runs very smoothly not matter what I throw at it (ie., compiling Haiku, playing a video plus web browser, email client, IRC client and plus a few more apps running). On the same machine, Win 7 is a joke that it feels like I had downgraded my PC to a Pentium with 64MB of RAM, and Ubuntu runs acceptably, but the UI shows lagging and it becomes overall jerky (ergo, unusable) when, for example, I compile Haiku in it.

People have got used to the sort of subpar user experience that Win and Linux has delivered over the years, and unfortunately the notion that you need super-machines to enjoy responsiveness has settled in a lot of people's minds. In a way, the multiple video demo tries to demonstrate that it does not have to be that way.

Reply Parent Score: 1