Linked by Thom Holwerda on Fri 10th Sep 2010 23:38 UTC
Legal EULAs, and whatever nonsense they may contain, are legally binding in the US. Have a great weekend!
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RE[2]: Grrr, I just don't get it.
by WereCatf on Sat 11th Sep 2010 03:39 UTC in reply to "RE: Grrr, I just don't get it."
WereCatf
Member since:
2006-02-15

Replying to your article, Thom: EULAs are as binding as every other legal agreement one enters into.

EULAs and contracts are two completely different kinds of beasts.

A contract is a legal agreement agreed by all related parties and a contract is placed _before_ any sale or transferral of goods. A contract also defines what service(s) the other party/parties provide, at what cost and with what kinds of limitations.

An EULA is an agreement that takes place _after_ sale or tranfessar of goods and there is no one to agree or disagree with, nor anyone overseeing the process. EULAs almost always try to limit the rights given to the buyer by other laws and tries to impose limits on you, not the service.

The after-sale limitations on rights given by existing laws is already enough for EULAs to be invalid in most European countries, but if it's a not service but instead bought goods, like f.ex. a software package sold at any computing-related store, there is even less for EULAs to stand on; it simply isn't allowed for manufacturer to place limitations on a copy of software they don't anymore own. If manufacturer wants something to be defined as a service then it needs to advertise it as such and create a proper contract when signing someone up, buying something from a store with no kind of agreement whatsoever doesn't constitute a contract.

I am quite sad and very much irritated by the US legal system, it seems you can do more-or-less anything whatsoever if you just have deep enough pockets, and the rights of regular consumers are constantly being trampled. I hope they will some day in the future wisen up and revise the whole system, from top to bottom. Until then I will not land my foot on American soil, even if I was paid for it ;)

Reply Parent Score: 9

Almafeta Member since:
2007-02-22

An EULA is an agreement that takes place _after_ sale or tranfessar of goods and there is no one to agree or disagree with, nor anyone overseeing the process.

EULAs appear before installation (the actual transfer). That's why you have to offer refunds to those to disagree with EULAs.

it simply isn't allowed for manufacturer to place limitations on a copy of software they don't anymore own.

Ownership of a piece of software is no more transferred than ownership of a song or a story is transferred when you buy a CD or a book. (It's the only reason copyleft licenses have any power to restrict free usage, f'rex.)

the rights of regular consumers are constantly being trampled.

What rights have been lost? As far as I know, selling things you don't legally own is a crime, not a right.

Also, you speak in terms of 'the rich' versus 'the consumers', as if the only people who have copyrighted content are those who work for large corporations. That's a false distinctions, because virtually everyone can produce something of value. Taking away the ability of Joe Q. Programmer to use an EULA to protect himself would be an injustice, and really would make it so only rich corporations could afford to protect themselves.

I hope they will some day in the future wisen up and revise the whole system, from top to bottom.

Don't worry; people who create things over there will get their rights back soon enough. ;)

Edited 2010-09-11 05:38 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2

WereCatf Member since:
2006-02-15

EULAs appear before installation (the actual transfer). That's why you have to offer refunds to those to disagree with EULAs.

Transferal of goods or valuables, ie. money, happens already at the store.

Ownership of a piece of software is no more transferred than ownership of a song or a story is transferred when you buy a CD or a book.

You are mixing up concepts of ownership and copyright. They are not the same thing and should not be mixed; you own the copy of the book if you buy it and may do with it as you please, but the original author still holds copyrights to it and thus you are not allowed to break copyright law. Do NOT confuse these things.

What rights have been lost? As far as I know, selling things you don't legally own is a crime, not a right.

See previous answer.

Reply Parent Score: 6

Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

That's why you have to offer refunds to those to disagree with EULAs.


I'm really interesting to know if this actually works.

Taking away the ability of Joe Q. Programmer to use an EULA to protect himself would be an injusticep


What injustice would that be that isn't already covered by existing regulations?

Ownership of a piece of software is no more transferred than ownership of a song or a story is transferred when you buy a CD or a boo


If I buy a CD I can later sell it if I don't want it anymore. I can sell my old car when I want to buy a new one. What the ninth circle has essentially said here is that I can not sell software that I am no longer using.
What "injustice" is this supposed to protect against?

Reply Parent Score: 4