Linked by Thom Holwerda on Fri 10th Sep 2010 23:38 UTC
Legal EULAs, and whatever nonsense they may contain, are legally binding in the US. Have a great weekend!
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A few points
by google_ninja on Sat 11th Sep 2010 06:16 UTC
google_ninja
Member since:
2006-02-05

nobody is putting a gun to your head to license software. This is a choice you make. If a company does something or demands something that is unacceptable for you, don't freakin use it.

The GPL is free code that requires you to change how you license your code if you use it. I don't think anyone here thinks thats wrong, even though that power goes WAY beyond the power a person would have if they sold you something. When Linksys (for example) broke the terms of the license, nobody said that the GPL should be overturned, they wanted the freakin code, because if Linksys didn't want to abide by the terms of the GPL, they shouldn't have used it.

What is the difference between stallman demanding you change the license of something he has nothing to do with, and autodesk demanding you destroy something you legally bought? one is a loveable hippy, the other is a heartless multinational.

I'm not saying that autodesk is good or right or anything like that. I am saying that people need to stop deluding themselves about these things. Buying software, movies, books, etc are not the same thing as buying a loaf of bread, your rights are very very different. If the company is demanding too much, write them an email explaining why you didn't buy their product. If enough people do that, things will change.

Reply Score: 2

RE: A few points
by WereCatf on Sat 11th Sep 2010 06:24 in reply to "A few points"
WereCatf Member since:
2006-02-15

one is a loveable hippy

There is nothing loveable about him, though.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: A few points
by google_ninja on Sat 11th Sep 2010 07:58 in reply to "RE: A few points"
google_ninja Member since:
2006-02-05

Yeah, I was trying to make a point. I think the guy is a dick too :-). as an aside, I ran across this just yesterday http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I25UeVXrEHQ

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE: A few points
by Thom_Holwerda on Sat 11th Sep 2010 06:39 in reply to "A few points"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

I'm not against the concept of licensing software.

I'm against the shady business practice of masquerading the licensing of software as a sale. Luckily, I live in a sane world, and this shit won't fly in Europe, because it's a post-sale restriction.

If software "vendors" (LOL) want to do this right, then they ought to present the license as part of the "sale" (LOL), both on their website, as well as through their re"sellers" (LOL).

But they don't. As such, EULAs can suck my big fat popcicle. I just can't understand people supporting these shady business practices. You're basically shooting yourself in your own foot!

Also, I'm 100% certain even these judges broke an EULA at least once.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[2]: A few points
by google_ninja on Sat 11th Sep 2010 07:46 in reply to "RE: A few points"
google_ninja Member since:
2006-02-05

So basically, youre saying that putting up a bajillion pages of legalese with an ok button isn't enough to indicate that this is different then buying a sandwich.

How about more "intangible" software? Like paying for rememberthemilk.com or something like that. There is no physical anything changing hands, but you are still going to get that gigantic license agreement you have to agree with.

I don't necessarily disagree with you, just sort of curious where you draw the line.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: A few points
by Soulbender on Sat 11th Sep 2010 09:00 in reply to "RE: A few points"
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

Hmmm...I'm pretty sure you have previously stated that you had been told by a law professor in NL that EULA's are legal there too. It would seems that at least one part of Europe is as fucked as the U.S.
Of course, EULA's can't over-ride your local consumer laws anyway so it's not a disaster.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE: A few points
by roverrobot on Sat 11th Sep 2010 06:54 in reply to "A few points"
roverrobot Member since:
2006-07-23


The GPL is free code that requires you to change how you license your code if you use it. I don't think anyone here thinks thats wrong, even though that power goes WAY beyond the power a person would have if they sold you something. When Linksys (for example) broke the terms of the license, nobody said that the GPL should be overturned, they wanted the freakin code, because if Linksys didn't want to abide by the terms of the GPL, they shouldn't have used it.


GPL is about copyright. As someone pointed out, copyright is not the same as ownership. For example, if you have bought a book, can you claim that whatever said in the book is now yours? No! But, can you resell the book? Yes!

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[2]: A few points
by google_ninja on Sat 11th Sep 2010 07:56 in reply to "RE: A few points"
google_ninja Member since:
2006-02-05

GPL is about licencing, that is what the L stands for.

I was using books and cds as an example of a purchase with additional restrictions. If I buy bread, I can photocopy it. If I buy a book, I can't photocopy it. You have different rights depending on what you buy.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE: A few points
by lemur2 on Sat 11th Sep 2010 08:04 in reply to "A few points"
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

The GPL is free code that requires you to change how you license your code if you use it. I don't think anyone here thinks thats wrong, even though that power goes WAY beyond the power a person would have if they sold you something. When Linksys (for example) broke the terms of the license, nobody said that the GPL should be overturned, they wanted the freakin code, because if Linksys didn't want to abide by the terms of the GPL, they shouldn't have used it.


Nitpick: the GPL says absolutely nothing about your code. The GPL addresses only what permissions you are granted for GPL code (written by someone else). That is to say, what you are permitted to do with THEIR code. Not your code.

Your code (that is to say, code that you wrote) you may do whatever you like with.

Anyone else's code ... you require permission from the authors to do anything at all with it. This is copyright law.

In the Linksys case ... it wasn't Linksys's code, it was GPL code written by someone else. It would have been exactly the same outcome if Linksys had used stolen Windows source code from Microsoft and used that.

Having clarified that point ... carry on.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[2]: A few points
by bogomipz on Sat 11th Sep 2010 14:51 in reply to "RE: A few points"
bogomipz Member since:
2005-07-11

Well, let's say you write a 10000 line program, but in that program you use 100 lines of GPL code somebody else wrote. Then you relase the binary. According to the GPL, you now have to release your entire code base under GPL, even if your plan was to keep it closed source.

Reply Parent Score: -1

RE: A few points
by andydread on Sat 11th Sep 2010 21:42 in reply to "A few points"
andydread Member since:
2009-02-02



I'm not saying that autodesk is good or right or anything like that. I am saying that people need to stop deluding themselves about these things. Buying software, movies, books, etc are not the same thing as buying a loaf of bread, your rights are very very different. If the company is demanding too much, write them an email explaining why you didn't buy their product. If enough people do that, things will change.


So basically what that means then is nothing will change.
not enough people will write as u say. And the masses are generally ignorant that when they purchase something that comes with software or purchase the software itself they are not purchasing but are licensing which means they do not own what they think they have just purchased. They have no clue. So we might as well just pack it in. They win we lose.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE: A few points
by alcibiades on Mon 13th Sep 2010 08:43 in reply to "A few points"
alcibiades Member since:
2005-10-12

If a company does something or demands something that is unacceptable for you, don't freakin use it.

No, there is another alternative. Find out if this clause is lawful, under the law of contract in the jurisdiction in question. Not all are.

Reply Parent Score: 3