Linked by Thom Holwerda on Thu 7th Oct 2010 19:10 UTC, submitted by tyrione
General Development LLVM 2.8 has been released. The release notes describe this new, ehm, release in greater detail, so head on over and give it a read.
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Software Patents ?
by boulabiar on Thu 7th Oct 2010 20:16 UTC
boulabiar
Member since:
2009-04-18

What about software patents ?

Apple is a big contributor to LLVM.
They have many patents citing LLVM by name inside them.

This is very dangerous as the licence isn't GPLv3 and doesn't protect users from being sued.

Reply Score: 0

RE: Software Patents ?
by tux68 on Thu 7th Oct 2010 20:56 in reply to "Software Patents ?"
tux68 Member since:
2006-10-24

What about software patents ?


The LLVM license allows closed source components to be created and used. However, the main project is committed to open source and requires anyone making contributions to sign a patent agreement:

http://llvm.org/docs/DeveloperPolicy.html#patents

They've actually already removed some code from llvm that infringed on a non-contributors patent. Hopefully their diligence will pay off and software patents wont be a major problem for them. It would be lovely if they weren't a problem in general. ;o)

Reply Parent Score: 8

RE: Software Patents ?
by tyrione on Thu 7th Oct 2010 21:40 in reply to "Software Patents ?"
tyrione Member since:
2005-11-21

What about software patents ?

Apple is a big contributor to LLVM.
They have many patents citing LLVM by name inside them.

This is very dangerous as the licence isn't GPLv3 and doesn't protect users from being sued.


One word. Research. Try it. It works.

Reply Parent Score: 0

RE[2]: Software Patents ?
by boulabiar on Thu 7th Oct 2010 21:59 in reply to "RE: Software Patents ?"
boulabiar Member since:
2009-04-18
RE: Software Patents ?
by Soulbender on Fri 8th Oct 2010 04:52 in reply to "Software Patents ?"
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

This is very dangerous as the licence isn't GPLv3 and doesn't protect users from being sued.


Please stop this nonsense about end-users being sued. End-users can not be sued for patent infringements in products they are using, I can not be sued for patent infringements in my TV, the one who will be sued is the manufacturer of the TV.

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[2]: Software Patents ?
by de_wizze on Fri 8th Oct 2010 10:43 in reply to "RE: Software Patents ?"
de_wizze Member since:
2005-10-31

Maybe he is actually a developer or prospective developer.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: Software Patents ?
by elsewhere on Sat 9th Oct 2010 18:49 in reply to "RE: Software Patents ?"
elsewhere Member since:
2005-07-13

"This is very dangerous as the licence isn't GPLv3 and doesn't protect users from being sued.


Please stop this nonsense about end-users being sued. End-users can not be sued for patent infringements in products they are using, I can not be sued for patent infringements in my TV, the one who will be sued is the manufacturer of the TV.
"

The scope of patent law isn't restricted to manufacturers, it covers any use of the invention. So end users could very well be sued. You could very well be blocked from using a device you designed and built yourself for personal use, if it infringed an existing patent.

This is the reason the major software vendors have to include legal indemnity for IP as part of their license agreement. It would be fairly tough selling software into the fortune 500s if you didn't, as there would be too much potential liability for them otherwise.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: Software Patents ?
by galvanash on Sun 10th Oct 2010 03:19 in reply to "RE: Software Patents ?"
galvanash Member since:
2006-01-25

Please stop this nonsense about end-users being sued. End-users can not be sued for patent infringements in products they are using, I can not be sued for patent infringements in my TV, the one who will be sued is the manufacturer of the TV.


Please don't give legal advice when you do not know what the hell you are talking about... End users CAN be (and have been, many times) sued for patent infringements in products they are using. You many feel that is unfair, illogical, stupid, or whatever - but I assure you that is simply the way it is.

If you buy something which does not specifically grant you indemnity by the manufacturer (which legally makes them the target in your stead), you are fair game.

Now, if you want to speak to whether or not you are "likely" to be sued, frankly that has almost nothing to do with your position in the supply chain and everything to do with how deep your pockets are and how likely you are to put up a fight...

And I do mean everything - frankly the target of a lawsuit is generally whoever the lawyers feel they can get to roll over easiest (or has enough money to make it worth while to endure a prolonged fight for a big payoff).

RIAA suits are a perfect example. Its not patent law, but that isn't the point. Do the targets of these lawsuits have money? Generally no - but the lawyers make up for it in volume (sue LOTS of people). And the payoff is strictly in settlements - if no one settled there would be absolutely no incentive for them to do this, and I mean no incentive. By the time a case gets to court they have already spent more money than they would ever likely see out of it... because the defendant is generally broke and can't pay anyway.

My point is this approach can be applied to patents as well. If the situation is just so, and a few lawyers get together and cook up a similar scheme where they think they can squeeze a few thousand people out of a few thousand dollars each in settlements, well if you think you can't be sued you are sorely mistaken...

Reply Parent Score: 2

What LLVM patents?
by katelin on Sun 10th Oct 2010 01:36 in reply to "Software Patents ?"
katelin Member since:
2008-10-06

You mean these "LLVM" patents? http://www.freeishsoftware.org/index.php/component/content/article/...

Turns out the people spreading rumors about there being patents on LLVM are a bunch of liars spreading FUD about LLVM.

Edited 2010-10-10 01:37 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE: What LLVM patents?
by Neolander on Sun 10th Oct 2010 06:30 in reply to "What LLVM patents?"
Neolander Member since:
2010-03-08

No patents about LLVM ? And what about this ?

1. A method for processing computer code, comprising: storing a device-independent intermediate representation of a source code; and in the event an indication is received that the source code has changed, using the changed source code to generate and store a new intermediate representation of the changed source code.
[...]
8. A method as recited in claim 1, wherein the intermediate representation comprises LLVM intermediate representation (IR), LLVM byte code or other byte code, or another appropriate intermediate representation.

Reply Parent Score: 2