Linked by Thom Holwerda on Thu 7th Oct 2010 19:10 UTC, submitted by tyrione
General Development LLVM 2.8 has been released. The release notes describe this new, ehm, release in greater detail, so head on over and give it a read.
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RE: Software Patents ?
by Soulbender on Fri 8th Oct 2010 04:52 UTC in reply to "Software Patents ?"
Soulbender
Member since:
2005-08-18

This is very dangerous as the licence isn't GPLv3 and doesn't protect users from being sued.


Please stop this nonsense about end-users being sued. End-users can not be sued for patent infringements in products they are using, I can not be sued for patent infringements in my TV, the one who will be sued is the manufacturer of the TV.

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[2]: Software Patents ?
by de_wizze on Fri 8th Oct 2010 10:43 in reply to "RE: Software Patents ?"
de_wizze Member since:
2005-10-31

Maybe he is actually a developer or prospective developer.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: Software Patents ?
by elsewhere on Sat 9th Oct 2010 18:49 in reply to "RE: Software Patents ?"
elsewhere Member since:
2005-07-13

"This is very dangerous as the licence isn't GPLv3 and doesn't protect users from being sued.


Please stop this nonsense about end-users being sued. End-users can not be sued for patent infringements in products they are using, I can not be sued for patent infringements in my TV, the one who will be sued is the manufacturer of the TV.
"

The scope of patent law isn't restricted to manufacturers, it covers any use of the invention. So end users could very well be sued. You could very well be blocked from using a device you designed and built yourself for personal use, if it infringed an existing patent.

This is the reason the major software vendors have to include legal indemnity for IP as part of their license agreement. It would be fairly tough selling software into the fortune 500s if you didn't, as there would be too much potential liability for them otherwise.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[3]: Software Patents ?
by Soulbender on Sun 10th Oct 2010 02:15 in reply to "RE[2]: Software Patents ?"
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

You could very well be blocked from using a device you designed and built yourself for personal use, if it infringed an existing patent.


Keywords being designed and built. Not purchased and used.

This is the reason the major software vendors have to include legal indemnity for IP as part of their license agreement. It would be fairly tough selling software into the fortune 500s if you didn't, as there would be too much potential liability for them otherwise.


So then, tell me why no other industry provides this to their end-users? Maybe it's because other industries are mature and not headed by morons?
Maybe they understand that if you put this into practice the whole capitalist system would collapse because consumers wouldn't dare purchase any products?
Does consumers in the U.S really have such a weak position that they have to fear being sued for patent infringements they could not possible know exist?
What happened to the free market that is supposed to spur innovation?

Edited 2010-10-10 02:19 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[3]: Software Patents ?
by raboof on Sun 10th Oct 2010 10:23 in reply to "RE[2]: Software Patents ?"
raboof Member since:
2005-07-24

The scope of patent law isn't restricted to manufacturers, it covers any use of the invention. So end users could very well be sued.


Depends on the country you're in: in the Netherlands, patent protection only applies to using the invention 'in or for a company' (rijksoctrooiwet 1910 art 30), not to purely personal use.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: Software Patents ?
by galvanash on Sun 10th Oct 2010 03:19 in reply to "RE: Software Patents ?"
galvanash Member since:
2006-01-25

Please stop this nonsense about end-users being sued. End-users can not be sued for patent infringements in products they are using, I can not be sued for patent infringements in my TV, the one who will be sued is the manufacturer of the TV.


Please don't give legal advice when you do not know what the hell you are talking about... End users CAN be (and have been, many times) sued for patent infringements in products they are using. You many feel that is unfair, illogical, stupid, or whatever - but I assure you that is simply the way it is.

If you buy something which does not specifically grant you indemnity by the manufacturer (which legally makes them the target in your stead), you are fair game.

Now, if you want to speak to whether or not you are "likely" to be sued, frankly that has almost nothing to do with your position in the supply chain and everything to do with how deep your pockets are and how likely you are to put up a fight...

And I do mean everything - frankly the target of a lawsuit is generally whoever the lawyers feel they can get to roll over easiest (or has enough money to make it worth while to endure a prolonged fight for a big payoff).

RIAA suits are a perfect example. Its not patent law, but that isn't the point. Do the targets of these lawsuits have money? Generally no - but the lawyers make up for it in volume (sue LOTS of people). And the payoff is strictly in settlements - if no one settled there would be absolutely no incentive for them to do this, and I mean no incentive. By the time a case gets to court they have already spent more money than they would ever likely see out of it... because the defendant is generally broke and can't pay anyway.

My point is this approach can be applied to patents as well. If the situation is just so, and a few lawyers get together and cook up a similar scheme where they think they can squeeze a few thousand people out of a few thousand dollars each in settlements, well if you think you can't be sued you are sorely mistaken...

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[3]: Software Patents ?
by Soulbender on Sun 10th Oct 2010 04:00 in reply to "RE[2]: Software Patents ?"
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

Maybe you should take your own advice.

End users CAN be (and have been, many times) sued for patent infringements in products they are using.


Unless you can give an example that's bullshit.

If you buy something which does not specifically grant you indemnity by the manufacturer (which legally makes them the target in your stead), you are fair game.


Really? Why then does my mobile phone, for example, not give me any indemnification against being sued for patent infringement? When you buy a car do you get indemnification? When you buy a lighter?
These products are no different from software in terms of patent infringement.

RIAA suits are a perfect example. Its not patent law, but that isn't the point


Actually, that's exactly the point. The RIAA lawsuits are about copyright and it's an entirely different thing. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that illegally redistributing (not necessarily downloading though) movies is against copyright law. On the other hand, knowing if a certain product could possibly infringe on some of the millions of patents that exists is an impossible task for a consumer. Consumers are simply not expected to have that kind of detailed and technical knowledge of every product they purchase. I can guarantee you that if a company brought to court a case against Joe Sixpack for infringing on some patent in a product he had purchased it would be thrown out right away unless you could prove that the defendant was aware of the infringement prior to purchase. Innocent until proven guilty, isn't that what you say over there?
If consumers where responsible to research in detail every product they purchased the whole capitalist system would collapse because not a single consumer would dare purchase anything in fear of being sued.

But hey, the American legal system might just be fucked up enough so that you should worry.

Reply Parent Score: 2